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build a TCO

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Hello everybody (German follows)

I think it's now time to explain what I'm trying to build.  Please have a look at the simple layout below.  The objectif is to create a 'TCO' as being exactly the same as the normal layout (tracks, switches,signals, engines, railcars, etc...), but at a very small scale.  In the layout, the scale of the 'TCO' is 20%.

First, do you think that this way to create a 'TCO' is a good idea?

This should permit to the user to have a view on the whole layout, inclusive trains and rail & freight cars that are not visible on the normal layout (hidden station, for example).  But I don't want to duplicate events and controls.  It would be great to have controls and events applying on the 'TCO' layout having as result to manage at the same time the original layout switches, signals, stop, breaks,etc...  and also the speed for the engines.  For this reason, I search a easy way to "connect" switches between the TCO and the real layout.  Thanks to Metallix, Curt84328 and Bahnland for the help they already give to me, but the proposed solutions are difficult to apply in this project.

Please notice that linking the 2 engines is not a solution; the only way is to apply the same percentage to the speed on the small engines.  For example, we have a 20% TCO and, so, the speed of the small engine must be 20% of the speed of its corresponding engine on the original layout (80 ==> 16). How to adapt it is also a problem if I do not want to set some additional actions in events.

So, all your ideas and solutions will be welcomed.  I thank you very much in advance for your help

Best regards

 

Hallo alle zusammen

Ich denke, es ist jetzt an der Zeit zu erklären, was ich zu bauen versuche. Bitte sehen Sie sich das einfache Layout an. Das Ziel ist, ein TCO zu erstellen, das genau dem normalen Layout (Gleise, Weichen, Signale, Motoren, Triebwagen usw.) entspricht, jedoch in einem sehr kleinen Maßstab. Im Layout beträgt die Skalierung der 'TCO' 20%.

Denken Sie zuerst, dass dieser Weg, eine "TCO" zu erstellen, eine gute Idee ist?

Dies sollte es dem Benutzer ermöglichen, einen Überblick über die gesamte Anlage zu erhalten, einschließlich der Züge und Eisenbahn- und Güterwagen, die auf der normalen Anlage nicht sichtbar sind (z. B. eine versteckte Station). Ich möchte jedoch keine Ereignisse und Steuerelemente kopieren. Es wäre großartig, wenn Steuerelemente und Ereignisse auf das 'TCO' -Layout angewendet werden, um gleichzeitig das ursprüngliche Layout umzuschalten, Signale, Stopps, Pausen usw. und auch die Geschwindigkeit der Motoren zu steuern. Aus diesem Grund suche ich eine einfache Möglichkeit, Schalter zwischen dem TCO und dem realen Layout zu "verbinden". Dank Metallix, Curt84328 und Bahnland für die Hilfe, die sie mir bereits geben, aber die vorgeschlagenen Lösungen sind in diesem Projekt schwer umzusetzen.

Bitte beachten Sie, dass die Verknüpfung der beiden Engines keine Lösung ist. Die einzige Möglichkeit besteht darin, denselben Prozentsatz auf die Drehzahl der kleinen Motoren anzuwenden. Zum Beispiel haben wir eine TCO von 20%, und daher muss die Geschwindigkeit des kleinen Motors 20% der Geschwindigkeit des entsprechenden Motors im ursprünglichen Layout betragen (80 ==> 16). Wie man es anpasst, ist auch ein Problem, wenn ich nicht zusätzliche Aktionen in Ereignissen festlegen möchte.

Daher werden alle Ihre Ideen und Lösungen begrüßt. Ich danke Ihnen schon im Voraus für Ihre Hilfe

Freundliche Grüße

André

Test TCO.mbp

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Hi Andre’

I think it is certainly a nice idea to have a model in the model and in some layouts I saw examples. However they were merely a feature. Your vision is hitting boundaries. If your layout is that large, that you cannot see it all at all times you most likely will have hard and/or software problems depending on the level of detailing in that layout as well as how comprehensive the EM is and of course how powerful your computer is. As it is right now the only way to have a “mini-clone” fully operational is to use the EM for this one as well. Besides synchronization problems that will occur, your EM will get blown up roughly by factor 2 which in turn, if the layout is that large, will amplify all the problems it had in the beginning, possibly right to a grinding halt.

I would rather try and design some smart camera placement/movement/switching in order to see whatever I need to see at any given moment.

Out of curiosity and eagerness to learn: TCO stands for??? I googled it here in NZ and got all sorts of explanations like True Cost Operation, Taken Care Of , Transport Control Officer and about hundreds more.

Cheers

Tom

 

 

Ich denke es ist eine nette idee ein model im model zu haben und ich sah bereits einige anlagen mit beispielen. Allerdings lediglich als ein schmueckendes detail. Deine vision stoest an grenzen. Wenn die anlage so gross ist das nicht alles jederzeit sichtbar ist, werden sich vermutlich hard u software probleme ergeben abhaengig von der detailgenauigkeit der anlage und des umfanges der EV und natuerlich der leistungsfaehigkeit des rechners. Die derzeit einzige moeglichkeit einen voll funktionierenden „mini clon“  zu erhalten ist mit der EV. Abgesehen von synchronisations problemen wird das die EV um etwa den faktor 2 aufblaehen, was als konsequenz, wenn die anlage gross ist, die urspruenglichen probleme verstaerken wird bis hin zum stillstand.

Ich wuerde eher versuchen ein inteligentes camera fuehrungs system zu entwickeln um jederzeit alles ueberall sehen zu koennen.

Noch eine frage aus neugier und lernwillen: TCO bedeutet???. Ich habe es hier in NZ gegoogled und bekam berge von erklaerungen wie: wahre betriebs kosten, beruecksichtigt, transportkontrolloer.

Cheers

Tom

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Suggestions.   

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1nvVNC8xuZEQnKeLhxYCDPtZ8tp1bdyYz

at .0:01 to 0:02 you see the controls for the locomotive.   we are looking through a top mounted camera, not the cockpit camera.

at 1:04 there is a switch, but it is a trailing switch (Convergent) and so does not need to be set.

at 1:23.5 there is a facing switch that can be triggered from atop the locomotive when stopped.

cameras can be set and triggered in the main layout,   Locomotives can be started and stopped from controls on top.  Tracks can be switched from the locomotive.  in short, there really is no need for a mini controls operation in the main one.

 

 

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Hi Curt84328

Thank you for your comments.

T.C.O. stands for "tableau de commande optiques" in french (optical control board) having the purpose to control a layout (real or virtual) like the one in attachement.
And I'm sorry but I cannot open your video; what program should I use to watch it?

And, finally, my purpose is to reproduce only the layout, not all other components present on the original view like cranes, buildings, etc..  But you are right to say that the events could be doubled.  This is the reason why I'm looking for an other solution : being able to manipulate two or more switches with only one control buttom or command.

Maybe am I dreaming...!

Regards

André

07602133-a352-408f-aca9-14bb8666f2b5.gif

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Hrllo André,

have you already tried the "Gleisbildstellpult" (track diagram control desk) of the train studio (see the category "Zusätzlich - Steuerung - Gleisbildstellpult" ("Extra - Controls - Track control panel") within the online catalog)?

Below some examples from my Gotthard layout:

1295213386_GBSGschenen.thumb.jpg.6c51fd9bbbdadcc9951805d2329675a5.jpg
1643339890_GBS-ABS-Sd.thumb.jpg.736ad8c85c638fa9f11d776bb8d01986.jpg

Many greetings
BahnLand

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Hello Bahnland,

Yes I do! 

But I suppose that this is also managed via events.  Am I wrong?

Best regards

André

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Hello André,

the GBS (track control panel) consists of bricks for building the track plan ("GBS0 Baustein ...") and additionally of specific key buttons for changing the positions of the connected track switches ("GBS1 ...taster ...").

633708009_GBS-Verknpfung.thumb.jpg.f91e6ff7a06a55469e22ddead043937f.jpg

Within the picture avbove, you see in the foreground the isolated key buttons, in the mid the same key buttons as part of a track control panel, and in the background the switches, where the key buttons are connected to. The key button in the right is connected to the turning platform on the right side.  You don't need any EV function to operate switches and turntables with connected key buttons. And the connection is also working vice versa: If a track switch or a turntable is changed, the result will be also shown at the connected key button.

On the other hand, you need the EV to show current reservations or occupations of track sections with yellow and red illuminations. Show the yellow illumination, when a track section will be reserved, and activate or deactivate the red illumination when a train enters or leaves the considered track section.

You can test the key button functionality with the following layout example:

GBS-Verknüpfung.mbp

Many greetings
BahnLand

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