Fürstenberg (Havel) Station Model Signals // Bahnhofsmodell Fürstenberg (Havel) Signale

[simonjackson1964]

Hi folks. I'm wondering if someone could help me out please?

For reasons best left undisclosed, I decided to build a model of the above station and its surroundings, using Google Earth as a guide. It's coming on nicely if slowly with some nice little additions at V8.

But I have a problem with the signals, in that they don't seem to male any sense.

 

Hallo Leute. Ich frage mich, ob mir bitte jemand helfen könnte?

Aus Gründen, die am besten nicht bekannt gegeben werden, beschloss ich, ein Modell der obigen Station und ihrer Umgebung zu bauen, wobei ich Google Earth als Leitfaden verwendete. Es kommt gut voran, wenn auch langsam mit einigen netten kleinen Ergänzungen bei V8.

Aber ich habe ein Problem mit den Signalen, da sie keinen Sinn zu machen scheinen.

There is a lack of street view pictures, so I'm limited to using the satellite view, and identifying things by their shadows.

The two ringed green above are the starter signals for the Northbound tracks 1 and 2 (Down, by UK convention as they are heading away from Berlin). The two shadows ringed in red would appear to  be starter signals Northbound for tracks 3 and 4, but this would mean trains run Northbound on the Southbound (Up) main line as the only crossover in that direction for 10 Km is facing in the normal direction of travel (ringed blue above).

Es fehlt an Straßenansichtsbildern, daher beschränke ich mich auf die Satellitenansicht und erkenne Dinge anhand ihrer Schatten.

Die beiden grünen Ringe oben sind die Startsignale für die Gleise 1 und 2 in Richtung Norden (unten, nach britischer Konvention, da sie von Berlin wegfahren). Die beiden rot umrandeten Schatten scheinen Startsignale für die Gleise 3 und 4 in Richtung Norden zu sein, aber dies würde bedeuten, dass Züge auf der Hauptstrecke in Richtung Süden (nach oben) in Richtung Norden fahren, da die einzige Kreuzung in diese Richtung für 10 km ist in die normale Richtung weist der Reise (oben blau umrandet).

It's as clear as I can get it, and I've runged in the same colour what I think are the four signals. On the one furthest left you can definitely see the white rectangle under the signal, meaning I am pretty sure it's not a home signal for Southbound trains on platform 3.

Es ist so klar, wie ich es machen kann, und ich habe in der gleichen Farbe eingekreist, die meiner Meinung nach die vier Signale sind. Ganz links sieht man auf jeden Fall das weiße Rechteck unter dem Signal, was bedeutet, dass ich mir ziemlich sicher bin, dass es kein Heimsignal für Züge in Richtung Süden auf Gleis 3 ist.

Would these perhaps be shunting signals? Signals no longer in use but not removed?

Wären das vielleicht Rangiersignale? Signale nicht mehr verwendet, aber nicht entfernt?

And then we have this:

Und dann haben wir das:

The H above the 9 is the platform length - "Stop here wth 9 or more coaches" - I think. But the signal itself is a puzzle. It doesn't have a post plate at all. Is it a repeater signal?

Das H über der 9 ist die Bahnsteiglänge - "Halte hier mit 9 oder mehr Autos" - denke ich. Aber das Signal selbst ist ein Rätsel. Es hat überhaupt keine Pfostenplatte. Ist es ein Repeater-Signal?

Any help would be grealy appreciated.

Jede Hilfe wäre sehr willkommen.

Thaks

Simon

Bearbeitet 3. Dezember 2022 von simonjackson1964
to correct typos

[streit_ross]

Hallo @simonjackson1964,

Kennst Du  die Seite OpenRailwayMap ? Rufe die Seite auf, gib im Suchfeld Fürstenberg ein und zoome so weit wie möglich hinein . Wähle die mit dem roten Pfeil markierte Auswahl. Dann siehst Du die Signale des Bahnhofes.

Do you know the site OpenRailwayMap ? Go to the page, enter Fürstenberg in the search field and zoom in as far as possible. Choose the selection marked with the red arrow. Then you will see the signals of the station.

Gruß

streit_ross

Bearbeitet 3. Dezember 2022 von streit_ross

[simonjackson1964]

Thank you for that it has positively identified the distant signal as what I thought.

But it hasn't helped with the rest of the signals.

So far as I can tell all four tracks are used for Northbound traffic and there is no southbound traffic at all, which makes no sense as the Deutsch Bahn timetable website has all Northbound trains on Platform 1, and most Southbound trains on Platform 3 except two that depart Platform 1.

There is no indication whatever of which direction the signals face!

The other end --->

[streit_ross]

Hallo Simon,

I explain the signals like this: The signals with the index N are the exit signals in direction north. The signals with the index P are the exit signals in direction south. In OpenRailwayMap these signals in south direction are drawn upside down for better visibility.

Best regards 

streit_ross

[streit_ross]

Hallo Simon,

A few more additions. Fürstenberg has a house platform with No. 1 and a middle platform with No. 2 and No. 3. The house platform has been in use again since 2021 after a repair of the roof. Before that, trains stopped only at the middle platform. No. 2 northbound, No. 3 southbound. The northbound trains stop at the house platform because it is barrier-free. That was a demand of the residents. Southbound trains stop at the middle platform No. 3. The fourth track is a part of a former connection for industrial facilities that no longer exist. There used to be as many as 6 of these tracks.

Noch einige Ergänzungen. Fürstenberg hat einen Hausbahnsteig mit der Nr. 1 und einen Mittelbahnsteig mit Nr. 2 und Nr. 3. Der Hausbahnsteig wird nach einer Reparatur des Daches seit 2021 wieder genutzt. Vorher hielten Züge nur am Mittelbahnsteig. Nr. 2 nach Norden, Nr. 3 nach Süden Die Züge in Richtung Norden halten am Hausbahnsteig, weil dieser barrierefrei ist. Die war eine Forderung der Einwohner. Nach Süden fahrende Züge halten am Mittelbahnsteig Nr. 3. Das vierte Gleis ist ein Teil eines ehemaligen Anschlusses für nicht mehr vorhandene Industrieanlagen. Davon gab es früher sogar 6 Gleise.

Bearbeitet 5. Dezember 2022 von streit_ross

[simonjackson1964]

Hi and thanks for the info. I had figured most of that out, but it;s good to have it confirmed.

The fact that there used to be a lot more tracks is clear from the wide flat area of overgrown ballast beyond P3 and the fact that the catenary towers and supports cover the entire width of that area. It also looks like an area that used to be sidings a little further North was given over to solar panels!

I assume that the extra "wrong-facing" signals were there because of the shunting required for the extra tracks?

I'm still confused by the snip below, of the multi-block signals further South...

O6 A is the Northbound Block section signal and being KS-Multiblock I assume would repeat the status of 06N1 or 06N3 (or neither) depending upon the settingd of the intervening points. Given that there is a forest area just south of the signals the short distance repeater makes sense on this track. But if 06 AA on the other track is the Southbound block signal, why is there a short distance repeater on the same track to the South?

The only logical explanation is still that both tracks are (or were) used for Northbound traffic, and 06 AA faced south as well as 06 A.

It doesn't actually make a difference as the signals are well beyond the end of the layout, I'm just curious.

Also, I'm wondering if you know when the station building changed to it's current  form from the one depicted by the Kibri model? They are nothing alike!

Thanks for the help

Simon

 

 

[streit_ross]

Hallo Simon,

All signals in Germany have designations depending on the direction of travel in relation to the line kilometerization.
Entry signals have the designation A, B, C,... in the direction of the kilometer marking
F, G, H, .... against kilometer direction
 If entry signals are installed on the left track of a double-track line, they are designated with double letters analogous to the designation of the entry signal on the right track (e.g. AA, FF, ...).

Exit signals N1, N2, N3,... in the direction of kilometer marking
P1, P2, P3,... against kilometer direction

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

Here the next picture:

And now the exit signals

The Kibri model of the Fürstenberg station has nothing to do with the original. It is a fantasy product.

Best regards

streit_ross

 

 

 

[simonjackson1964]

Thank you ever so much!

That is really helpful..