Virtual Depots

[Herman]

33 minutes ago, 220hotwheels said:

the problem is still there

Hello, @220hotwheels , it is difficult for us to see what the problem is now, we lack extra info. Did you use the event trace F12 to locate the error.
Best regards, Herman

[220hotwheels]

23 minutes ago, Herman said:

Hello, 220hotwheels , it is difficult for us to see what the problem is now, we lack extra info. Did you use the event trace F12 to locate the error.
Best regards, Herman

Hi Herman

No I have not. I have run event trace before but frankly was not able to understand where and when a problem was listed. I think the term most commonly used in my case when it comes to the more technical side of this wonderful pastime is "not the brightest cookie in the jar".  I simply keep going through the EV that I have created until I find the error.

Not great but it does eventually work.

Pete

 

 

[Phrontistes]

Hello everyone,

Pete may have a logic problem that cannot be pinpointed with event tracking, which reveals syntactical errors.

Incidentally, you would recognize an error in the event tracking immediately, because it then stops and shows you the error in red. If you click on the red line, you are in the event where the error is.

Kind regards

Phrontistes

[220hotwheels]

59 minutes ago, Phrontistes said:

Hi Pete

Why do you have to switch switches when you use routes? I think it would be easier you set routes depending on the train. It can end in chaos if you activate routes and switch switches at the same time.

Best regards

Phrontistes

Simply because I have found that after setting a route, with trains in particular, that junctions are more often than not ignored. I've taken another screenshot, this time of the junction in question and showing the route for a particular train, the last one to negotiate this junction. When it arrived at said junction it simply followed the path of the previous train.

Pete

[Phrontistes]

I can imagine where the problem lies. With routes, you have to be very careful to only activate them once and not (accidentally) multiple times. If you have set the defer request option (see picture), the program puts all requests on a stack and processes then stack. This has (supposedly) strange consequences.

The routes work absolutely flawlessly if you use them correctly.

Kind regards

Phrontistes

[220hotwheels]

23 minutes ago, Phrontistes said:

Hello everyone,

Pete may have a logic problem that cannot be pinpointed with event tracking, which reveals syntactical errors.

Incidentally, you would recognize an error in the event tracking immediately, because it then stops and shows you the error in red. If you click on the red line, you are in the event where the error is.

Kind regards

Phrontistes

Thanks for that. At least I can now utilise F12 fully. That said on the rare occasions that I have used it, nothing came up red.

Pete

[220hotwheels]

21 minutes ago, Phrontistes said:

I can imagine where the problem lies. With routes, you have to be very careful to only activate them once and not (accidentally) multiple times. If you have set the defer request option (see picture), the program puts all requests on a stack and processes then stack. This has (supposedly) strange consequences.

The routes work absolutely flawlessly if you use them correctly.

Kind regards

Phrontistes

I'm confused, and clearly not using "routes" correctly. I assumed that setting a route simply meant clicking on the routes icon at the bottom of the screen,  select the train and then simply list the route by means of moving from one signal or TC, (waypoints) to another until that part of the route in question was complete. I have set the route for each train in 2 parts. One leaves the terminal and ends just before the first VD. The second starts after the train has left the last VD and runs through to the freight terminal. Each train begins once it's relevant signal has been switched. I was unaware that it was to activate said route in the EV as well. I can now see the relevant section for activate or deactivate a route but no where have I come across the defer picture that you have sent.

Once again I have attached two more screenshot of one of the routes and would welcome your further advice as to the proper method of activating both.

Cheers

Pete

[Phrontistes]

Hi Pete,

vor einer Stunde schrieb 220hotwheels:

setting a route simply meant clicking on the routes icon at the bottom of the screen

Setting is ok, but means to construct a route for further use.

vor einer Stunde schrieb 220hotwheels:

select the train

No, a route can serve any train coming to the startpoint.

To activate a (beforehand constructed) Route use the EM (perferred) like this:

In this example, I ensure that trains enter a double-track station primarily on track 1, otherwise on track 2, but prevent two trains from occupying the two tracks in the same direction because that led to a deadlock if a countertrain comes. But that's just an example of how routes can be activated under certain conditions with the help of the EM.

Or - second possibility - you click here to activate a route (once because of the stack):

vor 1 Stunde schrieb 220hotwheels:

proper method of activating both

Do so by EM. Here one more example:

Look here, what happens when the Timer expires, the blocked-variable gets false (because the countertrain has retracted) and the direction-variable is set to depot:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flw_ZIcrabk

Here you can see, that there is a stack. Route 6-1 and routes 1 C-->E / 2 E-->C are crossing (see video). They are therefore only released one after the other by the program. And it is possible that the next train again reserves Route 6-1 (Stack!), which will be released as recently as the Train from the Depot is back on the countertrack.

Here the same situation as mbp:

Routes Example.mbp

Open the routes-window (F5) and watch the trains move.

Variable names and comments are largely (but not entirely) in English.

I hope I was able to promote your understanding of routes.

Routes are great and reliably prevent trains from colliding. No signals or switches have to be set manually or via EM.

Kind regards 

Phrontistes

[220hotwheels]

8 hours ago, Phrontistes said:

Hi Pete,

Setting is ok, but means to construct a route for further use.

No, a route can serve any train coming to the startpoint.

To activate a (beforehand constructed) Route use the EM (perferred) like this:

In this example, I ensure that trains enter a double-track station primarily on track 1, otherwise on track 2, but prevent two trains from occupying the two tracks in the same direction because that led to a deadlock if a countertrain comes. But that's just an example of how routes can be activated under certain conditions with the help of the EM.

Or - second possibility - you click here to activate a route (once because of the stack):

Do so by EM. Here one more example:

Look here, what happens when the Timer expires, the blocked-variable gets false (because the countertrain has retracted) and the direction-variable is set to depot:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flw_ZIcrabk

Here you can see, that there is a stack. Route 6-1 and routes 1 C-->E / 2 E-->C are crossing (see video). They are therefore only released one after the other by the program. And it is possible that the next train again reserves Route 6-1 (Stack!), which will be released as recently as the Train from the Depot is back on the countertrack.

Here the same situation as mbp:

Routes Example.mbp 479.73 kB · 0 downloads

Open the routes-window (F5) and watch the trains move.

Variable names and comments are largely (but not entirely) in English.

I hope I was able to promote your understanding of routes.

Routes are great and reliably prevent trains from colliding. No signals or switches have to be set manually or via EM.

Kind regards 

Phrontistes

 

Hi Phrontistes

Well you make it all seem so simple and very much more reliable and professional than my feeble attempt using lots of signals, timing and switches. It is, however going to take me a little while to work through all of the information that you have sent to me and to watch the video so I didn't want you to think that I was ignoring your most generous advice. Since our last conversation I did try to come up with a solution myself, attached screenshot, but alas it didn't work so hopefully with your guidance and advice I'll get this issue sorted finally and in doing so add considerably to my knowledge base. Many thanks once again.

Cheers

Pete

[Phrontistes]

Hi Pete,

vor 1 Stunde schrieb 220hotwheels:

to take me a little while to work through all of the information

I think not only a little while. It took me a few weeks to get to where I am now.

About your EM:

So it won't work out for logical reasons. I'll describe what you're doing here, namely a pointless roundabout:

• You evaluate the event, a specific route has been activated/deactivated – but without querying whether it has just been activated or deactivated.
• Regardless of whether it is activated or deactivated, you activate exactly this route under certain conditions, so you either activate it for the second time (don't do it because of the stack!) or you just deactivate it again.

It may be that you have to evaluate the event Route has been activated/deactivated, but firstly you have to evaluate the condition "Route is active" (or not) and secondly you do something afterwards that should follow and do not manipulate the triggering route.

Evaluate when a train enters a track contact and then decide which route should be activated (once!).

I hope this will get you a little further.

Best regards

Phrontistes

[Phrontistes]

Hi Pete

Maybe I should explain what routes can and can't do.

Routes are there to secure the path of a train. A requested route  will therefore only be released and blocked  if there is no train on the route and no other route has been previously released that collides with the requested route. With the release of the route, all signals (as defiend in the routes-constructor) and switches are set. All this makes the program independent. In the case of requested and colliding routes, it is a coincidence which route is released first.

Routes are not there to decide which train should go from where to where. You make this decision by

• that you request the route required for the desired trip
• set the train in motion to the starting point of the route (by hand or by EM).

I hope again this will get you a little further.

Best regards

Phrontistes

[220hotwheels]

1 hour ago, Phrontistes said:

Hi Pete,

I think not only a little while. It took me a few weeks to get to where I am now.

About your EM:

So it won't work out for logical reasons. I'll describe what you're doing here, namely a pointless roundabout:

• You evaluate the event, a specific route has been activated/deactivated – but without querying whether it has just been activated or deactivated.
• Regardless of whether it is activated or deactivated, you activate exactly this route under certain conditions, so you either activate it for the second time (don't do it because of the stack!) or you just deactivate it again.

It may be that you have to evaluate the event Route has been activated/deactivated, but firstly you have to evaluate the condition "Route is active" (or not) and secondly you do something afterwards that should follow and do not manipulate the triggering route.

Evaluate when a train enters a track contact and then decide which route should be activated (once!).

I hope this will get you a little further.

Best regards

Phrontistes

Hi Phrontistes

Well at least now I know why it didn't work. That you took a few weeks to achieve your results and knowledge is quite impressive.  Without a clear manual to suggest different steps it all becomes a bit of a guessing game, but in a way that is party of the appeal although my real interest is in designing the layout, getting things to work properly is the icing on the cake. Thus far I have designed 4 layouts and am now on my 5th. In each many elements work, to  a point, but the overall effect of the layout is, I think quite good. In each I try to introduce something different from knowledge that I have gained but in doing so I tend to put to the back of my mind improvements to my EV knowledge. However as I gain more experience I do keep returning to the original layouts and making adjustments. My only pit fall is the size that each layout becomes. The smallest is just shy of 3000kb and the largest is over 5300kb. My computer copes well with all of these but It does restrict what I can share unless a member is happy for me to send a layout via email as an *.mbp. One other element that also restricts sharing is that on some of the layouts I have some bespoke trucks and trailers, courtesy of another member but they are too large to be considered for the catalogue. My ultimate aim is to produce video's of each so that they can be posted on YouTube, but that's for another day.

Anyway I digress. When I look at some of the EV that you and other members produce I cannot but wonder just how you found the elements to choose in order to achieve your results. As you have already seen from my attempt to solve the routes issue, I simply started to look through the various sections of EV to try to find something that resembled a possible result. Clearly the obvious to me was not the answer. Now however, with your advice I might just get it sorted.

Once again many thanks

Kind regards

Pete

[Phrontistes]

Hi Pete

Yes, stay tuned to understand routes and the event management. It's worth it, especially if you want to make videos, because that's the only way to get a smooth operation.

Good luck!

Best regards

Phrontistes

[Phrontistes]

Hi Pete

Perhaps an addendum: I have dealt almost exclusively with the controls and stage layouts that others have made. For example, take a look at Ernest's DONNER PASS, which I have provided with camera work. ID: D37AE594-7955-4B19-9072-52FDB259742F.

Best regards

Phrontistes

[220hotwheels]

1 hour ago, Phrontistes said:

Hi Pete

Perhaps an addendum: I have dealt almost exclusively with the controls and stage layouts that others have made. For example, take a look at Ernest's DONNER PASS, which I have provided with camera work. ID: D37AE594-7955-4B19-9072-52FDB259742F.

Best regards

Phrontistes

Hi Phrontistes

Thanks for that I'll take a look. In the meantime I have attached a few screenshots of one of my layouts that I hope you might find interesting. Whilst most of it works it certainly needs a lot of streamlining which may well bring it down in size but until I have gained enough expertise it will have to wait.

Cheers

Pete

[Phrontistes]

Hi Pete

Nice layout, but that would be too confusing for me. I prefer to work with small layouts, but they should be right down to the last detail.

The DONNER PASS is now also available as a video. Just look at my channel.

https://www.youtube.com/@MBS-Phrontistes

Kind regards

Phrontistes

[220hotwheels]

34 minutes ago, Phrontistes said:

Hi Pete

Nice layout, but that would be too confusing for me. I prefer to work with small layouts, but they should be right down to the last detail.

The DONNER PASS is now also available as a video. Just look at my channel.

https://www.youtube.com/@MBS-Phrontistes

Kind regards

Phrontistes

Hi Phrontistes

I fully understand. Kingston, the screenshots that I attached is one of my less complicated layouts. Fairmont, my first is the most complex followed by  Portland which has a fully functioning lock. Trenton, the one that I am working on now, will I hope, be somewhat more perfect as far as operational function is concerned as I plan to spend time experimenting with routes and the airport operation will be much slicker. My smallest layout "Woodridge" might be one of the first to get a routes makeover once I have got that element mastered.

All the very best.

Cheers

Pete