Laying Track Tutorial

[paulthomann]

I posted a question yesterday and got a great response. Thanks again everyone. This program is a bit of a struggle since there is not a lot of English support for it. I don't mind having to watch German Youtube videos the problem is finding what you are looking for. I think the easiest way is to get knowledgeable people on this forum to point me in the right direction. I am getting through a lot of the program basics in trying to mimic my layout on this program I have a horseshoe shaped layout 9 meters on the left side, 7 meters along the back and 5 meters on the right side. There are nearly 50 turnouts on it. As a result I am having a tough time get things to line up. Is there a video or article where it describes some best practices for laying track to make this process go a little easier? Thanks so much for all your help.

[simonjackson1964]

One of the issues could be that the track you used on your physical layout isn't exactly modelled on MBS? An error of as little as half a millimetre or one tenth of a degree can cause a significant discrepancy over a large distance.

You have a number of options as I see it, (ignoring the obvious non-starter of replacing all the track on the physical layout with track that is accurately modelled... Ha ha).

The most tedious is probably to accurately measure all the track that you have used down to 0.1mm accuracy, and then use the track editing tool to amend the virtual equivalent track on MBS. Note that this will only affect your layout.

Probably an easier way would be to adjust the track using the "flexible track" feature that enables you to lengthen, shorten and bend tracks on the baseboard. This will not be exactly the same as your physical layout but will be a "best fit". You can use the track edit feature to amend points and crossings, and my advice is once you have one of each, save it to "My Models" and then re-use it...!

A third option, which is easiest if you are happy to do so, would be to simply "approximate" the layout, as closely as you can, using the track as supplied on MBS. The "Model Oriented" track set is actually the most versatile (in my opinion) and is what I use all the time now.

Hope this is of some help?

 

 

[HWB]

instructions in 12 languages

Bearbeitet 16. Juli von HWB

[paulthomann]

I have been through all of the instructions. I was just looking for information that went beyond the instructions. Simon, the information you have given is helpful. I am starting to get the hang of laying code 83 flex track so I will just stick with that. My layout is a mix of code 83 and code 100. I haven't seen much of a difference between the code 83 flex track in the software and the "Model Oriented" version. Indeed you can connect it right up to the code 83 variant. I am not looking for exact. My goal is to get it close so I can experiment with the landscape and other concepts before committing them to the build. This is the first program that I experimented with that seems to have good visualization tools and has flexible tools for setting up an irregular base and laying a lot of track quickly in order to get to other aspects.  Here is a view of what I have so far. Suggestion and/or advice are always welcome. Don't worry. You won't hurt my feelings. Thank so much for all your help.

 

Paul

[simonjackson1964]

Hi Paul

Interesting layout. The sort that I always wished I had the time, money and space to build...!

Where are you having problems joining things up? I did notice a gap on the outer return loop, but that looks more like either an oversight or a deliberate (but unnecessary) isolation gap. Unnecessary because MBS has no actual current flowing through the track. It doesn't look like a gap where the track doesn't fit. I have found that MBS is actually more versatile than physical track in a lot of ways.

I'm happy to help in any way I can, and if I can't, there are plenty of  folks who speak English better than I speak German, who are more experienced than I am.

[paulthomann]

Well I am retired and just happen to have the space to for something this large in my barn loft. I never used it for anything else anyways. Kids like to store their stuff there but I try to actively discourage the squatters. I started to use some of the Model Oriented track and have found it to be a bit more forgiving and easier to coax into position on the layout. I must say the program IS far more forgiving than real life model railroad. I have spent days upon days getting the track laid in such a way that passenger trains will not derail. This layout was the layout of a master scratch builder. I disassembled it and reassembled it in my barn loft. It took over 3 weeks at his home to disassemble and then going on 4 months in the loft trying to get it all back together. It was never completed or running so I had to do a lot to get it back together again and then complete sections he had not finished. I think it was his first whack at DCC so the wiring was badly done.  I ripped most of that out and started over. 

Here is a video of the track in operation.(finally) 

 

I want to thank you Simon for your help. Nothing is possible in this hobby without the help of others. Well it may be possible but it would be frustratingly slow and mistake ridden. My goal with this layout is to get it all landscaped. The original owners conception was Albany to New York City in autumn during the 1950's. I was born and raised in Western New York near Buffalo. I would like to revision the railroad from Buffalo to Albany with parts of the Erie Canal which would be sites more familiar with what I grew up with. I live in North Carolina now and could easily turn it into the Piedmont Rail but honestly the Erie Canal still feels more like home to me. 

I apologize for the long post. A friend of mine from Toronto told me about this software and thought it might help me to achieve my vision. At this point I am excited because I have seen what other have done and I think this software can do it. I am humbled by and greatly appreciative for any help I can get. 

Best regards,

Paul

Bearbeitet 16. Juli von paulthomann

[simonjackson1964]

The software is certainly very adaptable and lends itself well to creating realistic scenery. As a simple example, my avatar, over to the left of the screen there, is a screenshot of a very simple static layout I built for the sole purpose of creating scenery, which in fact started out as a question regarding the way of changing the colour of the track on an unused siding...

The original question is here, and there are some very useful tips regarding how to change the colour of the track, that I then put into practice, and just created the scene from the photo as near as possible, just to see if I could.

I also recommend exploring the "Extras" tab, as on there you will find the "Primitives" menu, which contains a number of editable geometric and polyhedral shapes, that can be used to construct anything you want within reason. Unfortunately a failed back-up and a computer death resulted in me losing a lot of partially complete layouts, including one of the actual "Furstenburg" station, that I had built the station building for from scratch, using primitives and Google Earth street View, and also one where I built a brick factory by combining existing building models and primitives - What a physical modeller might call "kit-bashing"!

So yes, the program is well suited to desiging scenery -but for those of us with limited space, it also is great fun to get working!

[paulthomann]

Wow! That is solid advice. Thank you so much. I am going to go through that thread tomorrow. It looks interesting as it points to the level of detail that can be achieved by the program. Anything else you want to throw my way would be appreciated. Thanks Simon!

[paulthomann]

Well I must say I spent about an hour going through this. A little at this point is being lost in the combination of the translation and my knowledge gap. I get what they are doing to achieve the rusty stub section but I haven't done any changes to geometry or bed lowering or even texturing for that matter so I still find it a little confusing. This has given me a good idea of the level of detail that can be achieved with the program. Not the same as if you were weathering track on your own but a lot more than I expected for 3d modeling software. Thank you for directing my attention to this information.

I plan to go through the Extra's Tab next. Are there any videos of someone using this tab to good effect? 

 

Paul

[simonjackson1964]

I don't think there are videos as such. If I hadn't lost my saved layouts, I would share them, but I can certainly show you what I mean...

The one thing that is a bit unfortunate with these primitives is that you can't make holes in them, but depending on the level of detail you are after, they are great for scratch-building or kit-bashing.

I generally work in the 1:1 scale, as I'm not simulating an actual model. I am guessing your layout is O-Gauge? (To quote Sheldon Cooper, "O-Gauge or no gauge!" Ha ha!) I used to model in N because of space, but it's actually more expensive than HO/OO in England!

Anyway, put a box on the baseboard, and set it to the size you want...

Make sure the positioning is set to "Stack" and pop a couple of ramps on top... Sized and positioned correctly, and hey presto, you have a house...

There is a lot you can do to this template to make it more realistic, obviously textures are a good idea. Instead of ramps, a couple of pyramids on either end covered by planes set at the right angle (remember your trigonometry from school? Ha ha!) can give a more realistic roof. A half cylinder along the ridge-line looks like ridge-tiles with the proper texture, A ha;f cylinder upside down can be the guttering, and cylinders sided correctly in the right places make great guttering. Windows are a problem, but I've found that a small plane made 100% reflective and positioned 1mm off the surface of the main box works fine. A similar technique for doors, making them a wood texture.

Like I said, it all depends on how detailed you want your scenery.

The other great use for the primitives is to fill holes in the baseboard created by bridges and tunnels, as shown in my post here...

The screenshots from the actual layout are from this one: 7C346FA4-A33E-4148-A0EE-3D0F790B8524 - I just checked, and it is still accessible even though it's a draft upload. It's got lots of primitives in it making various details. Unfortunately, the track is too complex for me to get it working - I'm too ambitious, but I love building them!

If you want to chat in real time, I'm currently off sick from work and available to chat. I have Facebook and Teams.

Anyway, I hope this is of help.

 

[paulthomann]

First to answer your question, I model in HO. A question for you. Where are you located? Just trying to figure out time differences. I stopped by your layout. Impressive to say the least. Interesting how the sounds change volume as you move toward them and away from them. 

[simonjackson1964]

The sound volume changing is a feature of MBS and has been there since V4. I generally have the sound off, though, because my wife is in the same room and finds it annoying!

I'm in the UK, so depending on what part of the US you are in, I'm either 5, 6, 7 or 8 hours ahead. (Unless you're in Hawai'i, that is!)

Interesting. The video you linked actually looks larger than HO, although that could just be perspective.

[paulthomann]

I am in North Carolina just below the Virginia border near Danville, Va. So 5 hours.  Love the UK. We will be there in September. Where in the UK do you live? 

I shot the video at eye level to the trains and in some cases even slightly lower. That tends to change perspective and makes it hard to tell what scale it is. There is a lot of discussion in model rail forums on how high the track layout should be set. A lot of factors go into it but the main one is that models look better at eye level. 

I look forward to getting together. Not sure what is a good time. I would like to watch and see how you use primitives. I tried using them but they don't seem hard to line up. I think I just don't understand them properly. 

 

Paul

[simonjackson1964]

Hi. I tried to send you a PM, but apparently you can't receive them? Not sure why that would be.

My email is simon.j.19640430@gmail.com.  I'll be available today from about 15:30 BST which would be 10:30 EDT. You should be able to get me on Teams, Facebook Messenger, and Google Meet.

Or if that's no good, email me and we can arrange something for tomorrow or over the weekend.

Cheers

Simon

[paulthomann]

It looks like it won't get done today. I live on a small farm and my farmhand/wife is away so I have all the chores today including taking care of all the animals. Just got done and so hot out had to take a shower to cool down. Tomorrow will be a problem too but Saturday she will be back and I will have some time. Hope you are feeling better. In the meantime I will see what I can figure out on my own in my spare time.

 

Paul

[paulthomann]

By the way I use Facebook Messenger. Stopped posting on Facebook a few years ago because things people say tended to ruin my day. I still use Messenger though and marketplace. So we could connect up on messenger if we ever find the time. Thanks again Simon.

Paul

[simonjackson1964]

That's fair, although if I called my wife "farmhand" (or something similar) I'm pretty sure I'd be cooking my own food for a month! Ha ha!

The only reason I even have Facebook is that she was visiting relatives overseas a few weeks ago, and it was a convenient way to keep in touch! I don't post anything either.

[paulthomann]

Eureka! I managed to complete all the track and it seems to be working. 

[paulthomann]

3D10DB13-DCDE-4E37-8696-8B513BC6444F

[simonjackson1964]

Well done! I noticed a misaligned join at x=-987.5, y=-30.01. Not sufficient to stop the train, but enough to make it jerk with unintended realism (when compared to the US prototype - the condition of the tracks over there would never be accepted in Europe!). I would just move one or other of the track ends using the flexi-track tool to realign them.

So now you need some scenery?

The signals supplied with MBS are almost all German, as is most of the rolling stock, but I honestly have no knowledge of US railway signalling at all. I know British signals and practices, and thorough research and asking questions on this forum has given me a working know;edge of German signals.... But what I do know is how the Route system works on MBS - from trial and error and playing with it!

Scenery itself I can certainly help with. Scratch-building with Primitives is actually something I enjoy doing and it's good because what you build doesn't require uploading seperately, which is the case with other modelling programs.

I'm not certain if you can use my email address to find me on Facebook? It's not something I've ever done. I know you can with Teams.

Hope to chat soon?

Simon

[paulthomann]

5 hours ago, simonjackson1964 said:

Well done! I noticed a misaligned join at x=-987.5, y=-30.01. Not sufficient to stop the train, but enough to make it jerk with unintended realism (when compared to the US prototype - the condition of the tracks over there would never be accepted in Europe!). I would just move one or other of the track ends using the flexi-track tool to realign them.

So now you need some scenery?

The signals supplied with MBS are almost all German, as is most of the rolling stock, but I honestly have no knowledge of US railway signalling at all. I know British signals and practices, and thorough research and asking questions on this forum has given me a working know;edge of German signals.... But what I do know is how the Route system works on MBS - from trial and error and playing with it!

Scenery itself I can certainly help with. Scratch-building with Primitives is actually something I enjoy doing and it's good because what you build doesn't require uploading seperately, which is the case with other modelling programs.

I'm not certain if you can use my email address to find me on Facebook? It's not something I've ever done. I know you can with Teams.

Hope to chat soon?

Simon

My farmhand is back and I still just sat down. I am up at 6am and tend to get out to feed the animals by 7:30 and then do any other chores before it gets too hot. And with all that the days just roll by. Mind you I do try to be back in the house by noon but sometimes things just don't work out. And this is not even a real farm. My kids call it a hobby farm. They say that cause they know it aggravates me.

 

If it works for you I usually get up by 5:30am which would be about 10:30 your time. By the time I make coffee it is almost 6am. Would that be good for you tomorrow or perhaps Monday morning?

Thanks so much Simon for all the time you have given me so far. 

I have checked with Facebook Messenger. It does allow you to screen share so I am sure that would be helpful when you are demonstrating primitives. I am pretty adepth at Fusion360 and have a pretty good knowledge of Blender so not a complete newbee. 

 

Here is my Facebook Messenger address. https://www.facebook.com/paulthomann1 

Try sending me a message to see if it works. 

[simonjackson1964]

That's great. I also checked and figured out how to share content.

Monday I'm working between 9:00 and 12:00 my time. But I am available tomorrow any time after 11:000 ( which is 6:00am your time.)

I'll pop a Friend request on Facebook now, so we can find each other.