Identical twins behaving differently - problem with soft-coupling

[simonjackson1964]

Hi folks

This was a mystery at V6 and continues to be a mystery at V7

I have a bay platform that has a shuttle service running out from it and onto a branch line. In this age of steam, I am using two locomotives that are identical in every respect except I added an "a" to the end of the name of one and also added an "a" to the name of it's tender. This is still standard practice at terminus stations for trains hauled by a separate locomotive, be it diesel or electric. The inbound loco sits at the end of the platform, uncoupled from the "front" of the train and the new loco couples to the "back" of the train, then when ready, it pulls out of the station off to wherever it is going. The old loco is now free to shunt out of the platform. In reality it would probably head for an oiling or coaling line or possibly for a shed. Steam locos would be turned first.

And this is what my loco does. It goes to the turntable, is turned around and then heads back to a head-shunt on the same track as the bay platform to await the return of the shuttle train.  Rinse and repeat! So far so good.

But when the loco is reversing into the platform to pick up the train for it's next run, there is weirdness. The locos are identical have identical variables, identical tenders, and follow identical EV code. But one of them stops the moment it soft-couples to the train, the other pushes the train back until the loco at the other end is against the buffers. I cannot see a reason.

The only difference I can think of is that the coach is technically the other way around. I am trying that now - I have reversed the "last" coach on the train, so the tender couples to the same end of it in both cases.

Waiting to see what happens....

{a few minutes later}

Nope, that made no difference.  I cannot see any reason for the locomotives to behave differently!

Please help?

Simon

 

Hallo Leute

Das war bei V6 ein Rätsel und bleibt bei V7 ein Rätsel

Ich habe einen Bahnsteig, von dem aus ein Shuttleservice auf eine Nebenbahn fährt. In diesem Dampfzeitalter benutze ich zwei Lokomotiven, die in jeder Hinsicht identisch sind, außer dass ich ein "a" am Ende des Namens von einer und auch ein "a" an den Namen ihres Tenders hinzugefügt habe. Dies ist an Kopfbahnhöfen für Züge, die von einer separaten Lokomotive gezogen werden, ob Diesel- oder Elektrolokomotive, immer noch gängige Praxis. Die einfahrende Lok sitzt am Ende des Bahnsteigs, wird von der "Vorderseite" des Zuges abgekuppelt und die neue Lok kuppelt "hinten" des Zuges ein, dann fährt sie, wenn sie fertig ist, aus dem Bahnhof, wohin sie fährt . Die alte Lok kann nun frei aus dem Bahnsteig rangieren. In Wirklichkeit würde es wahrscheinlich zu einer Öl- oder Bekohlungslinie oder möglicherweise zu einem Schuppen führen. Dampfloks würden zuerst gedreht.

Und das macht meine Lok. Es geht zur Drehscheibe, wird gewendet und fährt dann zurück zu einem Head-Shunt auf dem gleichen Gleis wie der Hallenbahnsteig, um die Rückkehr des Shuttle-Zuges abzuwarten. Spülen und wiederholen! So weit, ist es gut.

Aber als die Lok rückwärts auf den Bahnsteig fährt, um den Zug für die nächste Fahrt abzuholen, kommt es seltsam. Die Loks sind identisch, haben identische Variablen, identische Tender und folgen identischem EV-Code. Aber einer stoppt, sobald er weich an den Zug ankuppelt, der andere schiebt den Zug zurück, bis die Lok am anderen Ende an den Puffern anliegt. Ich kann keinen Grund sehen.

Der einzige Unterschied, den ich mir vorstellen kann, ist, dass der Trainer technisch anders herum ist. Das versuche ich jetzt - ich habe den "letzten" Wagen im Zug umgedreht, also kuppelt der Tender in beiden Fällen an das gleiche Ende.

Abwarten was passiert....

{ein paar Minuten später}

Nö, das machte keinen Unterschied. Ich sehe keinen Grund für ein anderes Verhalten der Lokomotiven!

Bitte helfen?

Simon

[Goetz]

vor einer Stunde schrieb simonjackson1964:

one of them stops the moment it soft-couples to the train, the other pushes the train back

Sounds like the automatic brake is configured differently. 
Please check this icon:

Greets
Goetz

[simonjackson1964]

The reason Tender a's rear coupler is inactive is because the train is coupled to the other loco.

[simonjackson1964]

It's the second loco that does it BR 01-118. BR 01-112 2 behaves properly!

[Goetz]

Hello Simon,

Whatever it is that's causing your predicament, it's not in the pictures.
You need to give me something else to work with.

I know I have three guesses and only used one so far. But I'm in no guessing mood today

Cheers
Goetz

 

[simonjackson1964]

Hi Goetz

It's a mystery. There is no reason whatever for one loco to behave differently. I'd upload the layout, but it's kinda big, this is just part of module 1 you're looking at, and it's migrated from V6.

I'm considering just replacing the BR 01-118 that is misbehaving, or at least creating another clone of the one that isn't and swapping them out, just to see what happens.

I've checked the settings, I've checked the code, I've checked the routes, and everything is the same apart from the names. So my best guess is there's something in the underlying code that isn't working properly. I'll try and capture a video of it happenning, but I'm not sure if that will help. The only other suggestion is that we can somehow get on a collaborative chat like MS Teams over the weekend and I can demonstrate, and you can tell me what you need to see.

Cheers

Simon

[Goetz]

vor 39 Minuten schrieb simonjackson1964:

There is no reason whatever for one loco to behave differently.

Of course there's a reason, Simon.
And I might just find what it is if I could have a look.

Your assurances that you've checked everything help neither you nor me to identify the cause.
You can't see the one factor that you've overlooked so far. And neither can I when You don't let me take a peek.

vor 44 Minuten schrieb simonjackson1964:

I'll try and capture a video of it happenning

I don't need proof that it's happening, because I know it is.
I trust you that much. 

If you prefer to look at it as a mistery and not identify the underlying problem, I won't pester you any longer though..

Anyway, I'm not at home this weekend. Your next chance isn't before monday now.

Greets
Goetz

[Dad3353]

2 hours ago, simonjackson1964 said:

...It's a mystery...

Just a shot in the dark, and blind leading the blind, but I'd suggest a trial, or test. You indicate that the only difference is the absence of coupling on Tender A. I'd suggest making the couplings identical, both active. When you wish to uncouple, it's easy to deactivate the coupler, then, once the deed is done, to activate it again. Don't leave it 'open' like that, leave all couplers active until you specifically want to uncouple.
Maybe it's nonsense, but if all else is equal, it's something different that's causing you grief. Make 'em equal and they'll behave equally. Worth a try..?
(... and the loco has a suffix '2', not 'a' as in your description, but that's a detail...)

Nur ein Schuss im Dunkeln und ein Blinder führt den Blinden, aber ich würde einen Versuch oder einen Test vorschlagen. Sie geben an, dass der einzige Unterschied darin besteht, dass bei Tender A keine Kopplung vorhanden ist. Ich würde vorschlagen, die Kopplungen identisch zu machen, beide aktiv. Wenn Sie sich entkuppeln möchten, können Sie die Kupplung einfach deaktivieren und nach Abschluss der Aktion wieder aktivieren. Lassen Sie es nicht so 'offen', sondern lassen Sie alle Kupplungen aktiv, bis Sie gezielt entkuppeln möchten.
Vielleicht ist es Unsinn, aber wenn alles andere gleich ist, ist es etwas anderes, das dir Kummer bereitet. Machen Sie sie gleich und sie werden sich gleich verhalten. Einen Versuch wert..?
(... und die Lok hat einen Zusatz '2', nicht 'a' wie in deiner Beschreibung, aber das ist ein Detail...)

[Roter Brummer]

Hallo Simon,

ich könnte noch das hier anbieten:

I could still offer this one:

HG
Brummi

[simonjackson1964]

3 hours ago, Goetz said:

Of course there's a reason, Simon.
And I might just find what it is if I could have a look.

Your assurances that you've checked everything help neither you nor me to identify the cause.
You can't see the one factor that you've overlooked so far. And neither can I when You don't let me take a peek.

I don't need proof that it's happening, because I know it is.
I trust you that much. 

If you prefer to look at it as a mistery and not identify the underlying problem, I won't pester you any longer though..

Anyway, I'm not at home this weekend. Your next chance isn't before monday now.

Greets
Goetz

Hi Goetz

Of course I'm happy for you to have a look at it, I was just concerned about uploading the whole layout just to resolve this one issue.

If that is what you need, then please say so.

1 hour ago, Dad3353 said:

Just a shot in the dark, and blind leading the blind, but I'd suggest a trial, or test. You indicate that the only difference is the absence of coupling on Tender A. I'd suggest making the couplings identical, both active. When you wish to uncouple, it's easy to deactivate the coupler, then, once the deed is done, to activate it again. Don't leave it 'open' like that, leave all couplers active until you specifically want to uncouple.
Maybe it's nonsense, but if all else is equal, it's something different that's causing you grief. Make 'em equal and they'll behave equally. Worth a try..?
(... and the loco has a suffix '2', not 'a' as in your description, but that's a detail...)

Nur ein Schuss im Dunkeln und ein Blinder führt den Blinden, aber ich würde einen Versuch oder einen Test vorschlagen. Sie geben an, dass der einzige Unterschied darin besteht, dass bei Tender A keine Kopplung vorhanden ist. Ich würde vorschlagen, die Kopplungen identisch zu machen, beide aktiv. Wenn Sie sich entkuppeln möchten, können Sie die Kupplung einfach deaktivieren und nach Abschluss der Aktion wieder aktivieren. Lassen Sie es nicht so 'offen', sondern lassen Sie alle Kupplungen aktiv, bis Sie gezielt entkuppeln möchten.
Vielleicht ist es Unsinn, aber wenn alles andere gleich ist, ist es etwas anderes, das dir Kummer bereitet. Machen Sie sie gleich und sie werden sich gleich verhalten. Einen Versuch wert..?
(... und die Lok hat einen Zusatz '2', nicht 'a' wie in deiner Beschreibung, aber das ist ein Detail...)

Hi Doeg

The coupler on the one tender being disabled is necessary, but the point is that both locos reverse in to the bay platform, the same and the other loco is sitting at the buffers the same.

The problem with your suggestion is knowing when to uncouple the engine. It's simply easier to do the moment the train stops because it activates an event by stopping.

(And yes, I know, I forgot what they were called and couldn't be bothered to fix it, it's cosmetic)

 

Hi Brummi

I'll have a look at that.

 

Thanks

Simon

[simonjackson1964]

So I tried to see if I could replicate the problem on a small test track. No luck. Both engines behave exactly according to how they should

So it must be something on the layout

I went through everything I could think of. Checked the routes and the events that activate them. Found nothing.

Let the layout run for a couple of cycles of the bay platform and guess what? It didn't do it! Both engines stopped where they were supposed to! I'm now watching to see if it continues to behave or if the problem is now intermittent!