Ships and virtual tracks - Schiffe und virtuelle Spuren

[simonjackson1964]

The four vessels shown above are all sitting locked onto a virtual track a little way beneath the surface of the water. The collier at the front is about right. The tramp steamer (actually listed as a fishing boat, but she looks a tramp steamer to me) is sitting so high out of the water, she might actually capsize from the weight of her superstructure. The third ship is the empty collier. I couldn't find any lifeboats to put around her, but she's clearly going down... And lastly, the passenger ship, once again sitting at just about the right depth.

Is there any way this could be sorted out so that all water vehicles with engines latch onto the virtual track at the same height? I'm not meaning the decks, that would actually be unrealistic, but maybe 1 mm below the plimsoll line? Maybe have empty cargo ships sit higher that laden ones... In fact on the big container ship they could be animated to set the "keel depth" depending on how many containers are sitting on the deck.

(Best translation Google would give me)

Die vier oben gezeigten Schiffe sitzen alle auf einer virtuellen Spur etwas unter der Wasseroberfläche. Das Kohleschiff vor uns ist ungefähr richtig. Der Trampdampfer (eigentlich als Fischerboot aufgeführt, sieht für mich aber wie ein Trampdampfer aus) sitzt so hoch aus dem Wasser, dass er aufgrund des Gewichts seiner oberen Struktur umkippen könnte. Das dritte Schiff ist das leere Kohleschiff. Ich konnte keine Rettungsboote finden, die ich um sie herum stellen könnte, aber sie geht eindeutig unter ... Und schließlich das Passagierschiff, das genau in der richtigen Tiefe zurück ist.

Gibt es eine Möglichkeit, dies so zu arrangieren, dass alle motorisierten Wasserfahrzeuge auf der virtuellen Route auf derselben Höhe einrasten? Ich meine nicht die Decks, das wäre unrealistisch, aber vielleicht 1 mm unterhalb der Plimsoll-Linie? Vielleicht sind leere Frachtschiffe weiter oben als beladene ... Tatsächlich könnten sie auf dem großen Containerschiff animiert werden, um die "Kieltiefe" abhängig von der Anzahl der Container auf dem Deck anzupassen

[Dad3353]

On simple circuits, it may be easier to have separate splines for each height required. I did a 'trick' of this sort when I wanted bicycles to ride in opposite directions along the same cycle track. One layer for each height you need, link the ships to their layer / spline, hide and do the next one. It's now very easy to duplicate an entire spline, and lower the duplicate. The downside is that the ships won't collide; they'll pass through each other like ghosts..! Any use, at least for the vessels already afloat ..? 

Bei einfachen Schaltungen kann es einfacher sein, separate Keile für jede erforderliche Höhe zu haben. Ich habe einen solchen Trick gemacht, als ich wollte, dass Fahrräder auf demselben Radweg in entgegengesetzte Richtungen fahren. Eine Ebene für jede benötigte Höhe, verbinde die Schiffe mit ihrer Ebene / Spline, verstecke dich und mache die nächste. Es ist jetzt sehr einfach, einen ganzen Spline zu duplizieren und das Duplikat zu verringern. Der Nachteil ist, dass die Schiffe nicht kollidieren; sie werden sich wie Geister durchdringen ..! Jede Verwendung, zumindest für die Schiffe, die bereits flott sind ..? 

Bearbeitet 7. Dezember 2020 von Dad3353

[hubert.visschedijk]

Simon,

My imediate solution would be to scale the ships a little to a more acceptable size, without having doors etc to much out of it parameters.

For those that are to high for your purpose;

Place a dummy veicule on the watertrack and place the boat over it, but high enough so you can see both.

Rename the dummy with a shipsname so that you can recognize it later. Rename the ship to something else.

Deactivate automatic snapping

Connect the boat to the dummy and now sink the boat to the desired height over the dummy.

Activate automatic snapping again and control the boat over the dummy.

This all untill "boats" get another attention on updates..

now, have you tried my Fahrship ??? 

 

greetings

Bearbeitet 9. Dezember 2020 von hubert.visschedijk

[simonjackson1964]

Oooh, right... yes. Dummy vehicle on track and link the ship too it the same way the same way as I'm doing for cargo and drivers of road vehicles.

I have a variable "Set Invisible" on every vehicle with cargo or people. Cargo and/or people are grouped into a named group, and the group is linked to the vehicle and named in the variable. Then when "a vehicle enters a track/street with the keword "Vanish"" it sets the vehicle and the linked object group invisible. Vice versa when leaving a track/street with the keyword "Reappear".

Much better than having multiple tracks... (Sorry Dad)

Thanks Hubert.

[simonjackson1964]

Hmm... The trikiest part is linking the ship to the dummy loco. My advice to anyone else trying this: Put the ship in an open area of "sky" away from the baseboard, and position the dummy loco directly above an obvious fixed point like the masthead or navigation light. Then you can select the ship, click "Link To" button, and move your mouse to where you know you put the dummy. Then keep wiggling it until the pointer changes to a finger. Click to establish the link.

Then select the dummy loco from the objects list and drag it to the track. Personally once it's locked on, I test the direction, make sure it's going the right way, and make sure the ship is also going the same way (something, frankly, I do with every vehicle, even steam locos, but especially with diesels or electric locos.)

My question now is: is there a way to stop the "dummy" ship running over or being run over by the other ships if they have to stop and wait for a lock or a swing bridge?

[Dad3353]

1 hour ago, simonjackson1964 said:

... My question now is: is there a way to stop the "dummy" ship running over or being run over by the other ships if they have to stop and wait for a lock or a swing bridge?

Couldn't you use signals, in the same way as for trains..? 

Könnten Sie nicht Signale wie für Züge verwenden? 

[simonjackson1964]

Actually that's brilliant. Thanks. Separate the track into blocks and not allow a ship to enter until the previous one has left... I'm using track contacts and counters to control the bridge anyway, in the same way as a level crossing (Actually there's a conflict there that causes everything to stop sometimes, but it's mostly because I have a temporary "return loop" on the end of the double track...)

Of course the biggest issue with that is that water traffic does tend to bunch up. The speed limit of 15 knots on most European ship canals translates to 27.78 kph. The fact that the hevier vessels will take longer to reach that, and have to go astern to slow that much sooner means that the lighter ones will be stuck behind them unable to overtake. Talking about prototype here, by the way. I grew up not far from one of England's biggest inland waterways, the Thames, and spent many a happy hour watching the boats go through the locks - I've even spent time on a boat.

(Quick and related anecdote: I once watched a bargee bring a heavily laden barge to a halt using the bow line, his own muscles and a row of bollards. He literally wrapped the rope around each bollard in turn and pulled until it was about to pull his arms off then took the rope off that bollard and on to the next one. Each time he slowed that barge a little but more until finally it stopped. Centimetres from the back of the little hire-boat that I was on...!)

Signals are used on waterways, mostly for narrow stretches of canal (there is a stretch of the Kennet and Avon through Reading that has a one-way at a time signalling system), and for entrance to tidal basins and the like. The thing is, the length of canal that's visible on the layout is quite short, and any signals would need to be invisible on the invisible portions of the track, so I'd probably just use the track contacts.

Visible are two Rhine barge heading under the bridge, that just happened to be there when I paused and saved last. The "red string" of the virtual track disappears off to the left because it is swinging arsound in a great big square so the same ships dount leave and come straight back in - also gives time for the bridge to close and let trains across. You can also see the temporary return loop, that is there so I can test out things like making sure the trains will cross the bridge. The layout is modular and I'm still working on this module before starting on the next one...

If people are interested I'll put screenshots in somewhere more appropriate.

Simon

[Dad3353]

It's easy enough to make parts of the layout invisible, yet easy to work on, if they have their own Layer. Get it all working, then switch the Layer to 'Invisible'; job done. 

Es ist einfach genug, Teile des Layouts unsichtbar zu machen, aber einfach zu bearbeiten, wenn sie über eine eigene Ebene verfügen. Bringen Sie alles zum Laufen und schalten Sie die Ebene auf "Unsichtbar". Job erledigt. 

[hubert.visschedijk]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb simonjackson1964:

My question now is: is there a way to stop the "dummy" ship running over or being run over by the other ships if they have to stop and wait for a lock or a swing bridge?

Simon, you could even use a train with two wheelsets as a dummy. Perhaps even better so you can have "smoother" turns in curves. 

And if i understand it correctly, you dont want others ships to invade the area of the actual ship that is represented by the dummy.

Well, add a wagon (a non engine type) and place it in front and back of the dummy. Set it invisible also. But i guess @Dad3353´s solution is for controled stearing the best option. 

Bearbeitet 14. Dezember 2020 von hubert.visschedijk

[hubert.visschedijk]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb simonjackson1964:

Hmm... The trikiest part is linking the ship to the dummy loco. My advice to anyone else trying this: Put the ship in an open area of "sky" away from the baseboard, and position the dummy loco directly above an obvious fixed point like the masthead or navigation light. Then you can select the ship, click "Link To" button, and move your mouse to where you know you put the dummy. Then keep wiggling it until the pointer changes to a finger. Click to establish the link.

Perhaps i not explained it correctly. It is indeed tricky but easy to resolve. An open space i dont think is needed. A straight piece of track is indeed.

Place the dummy on the track. Place the ship on the board and lift it enough so that you know that there will be enough space between the ship and the dummy. Now copy the X and Y coordenates of the dummy to the ship. The ship will now be right above the dummy. Link the ship and lower the ship on to its desired height. (and the renaming etc in this process before lowering the ship)

And grouping, if you want to make it invisible at a certain point.

But i think that even this is not needed.. I am not an expert on this, but i think that with the dummy allready set as invisible even this can be resolved threw the stearing process. Something like.

If dummy enters , then set ship to invisible and vice versa

With kind regards

Bearbeitet 14. Dezember 2020 von hubert.visschedijk

[simonjackson1964]

Oh making things invisible isn't the issue... Actually, I've never  figured layers out. I know what they are, but I've never seen a use for them in anything, be it graphics, art work or this...

Why complicate things by putting stuff on different layers, when having one layer with everything on means I know where everything is?

@hubert.visschedijk Oh...! Ha ha. You mean use an actual locomotive as the dummy and make if invisible? I was trying to use the "Dummy-Lok" item. Hmm... Won't work for me because the ships all turn invisible when they leave the visible stretch of canal and turn visible again when they re-enter it, so unless the loco is small enough to fit right inside the ship without being seen, it will look really weird!

Also the cornering isn't an issue because most of the ships vanish before they hit the corner.

[hubert.visschedijk]

Gerade eben schrieb simonjackson1964:

"Dummy-Lok" item. Hmm... Won't work for me because the ships all turn invisible when they leave the visible stretch of canal and turn visible again when they re-enter it, so unless the loco is small enough to fit right inside the ship without being seen, it will look really weird!

Not if you allready set the dummy as invisible since the beginning and control the visibility of the ship over the dummy entrance on a certain piece of track. And then no command is need for the dummies visibilty

[Dad3353]

32 minutes ago, simonjackson1964 said:

...Why complicate things by putting stuff on different layers, when having one layer with everything on means I know where everything is?...

I have a similar situation on a layout, with a Zeppelin airship, not a canal boat. I have a track in the sky, with a little tram running around it, carrying the balloon on its back. Here's some pictures. First, the airship flying sedately along (Layer invisible...) ...

Ich habe eine ähnliche Situation auf einem Layout, mit einem Zeppelin-Luftschiff, nicht einem Kanalboot. Ich habe eine Spur am Himmel, um die eine kleine Straßenbahn fährt, die den Ballon auf dem Rücken trägt. Hier sind einige Bilder. Zuerst fliegt das Luftschiff ruhig entlang (Schicht unsichtbar ...) ...

The Reality made visible, showing the track and the tram porter ...

Die Realität wird sichtbar gemacht und zeigt die Strecke und den Straßenbahnportier ...

In the background, just beneath the tram, one may see another track, laid vertical, with a tiny shunter. Once the Zeppelin has made its circuit, this shunter is triggered, and the whole 'track in the sky' is slowly lowered to the ground, whilst the tram continues, giving the illusion of a landing ...

Im Hintergrund, direkt unter der Straßenbahn, kann man eine andere Spur sehen, die vertikal mit einem winzigen Rangierer verlegt ist. Sobald der Zeppelin seine Runde gemacht hat, wird dieser Rangierer ausgelöst und die gesamte "Spur am Himmel" wird langsam auf den Boden abgesenkt, während die Straßenbahn weiterfährt, was die Illusion einer Landung vermittelt ...

Here's the ship near the ground; the little shunter is near the end ...

Hier ist das Schiff in Bodennähe; Der kleine Shunter ist kurz vor dem Ende ...

And now the same, but with the sky track in its normally invisible state ...

Und jetzt das gleiche, aber mit der Himmelsspur in ihrem normalerweise unsichtbaren Zustand ...

 

I find Layers to be very useful, especially when mixing roads and rail, for instance, or having independent cycle lanes, where the bikes ride in opposite directions, ostensibly on the same cycle lane. Smoke and mirrors, of course, but isn't it all..?

Just sayin'; hope this helps.

Ich finde Layer sehr nützlich, insbesondere wenn Straßen und Schienen gemischt werden oder wenn unabhängige Radwege vorhanden sind, auf denen die Fahrräder in entgegengesetzte Richtungen fahren, angeblich auf demselben Radweg. Rauch und Spiegel natürlich, aber ist das nicht alles?

Ich sag bloß'; hoffe das hilft.

Douglas

Bearbeitet 14. Dezember 2020 von Dad3353

[hubert.visschedijk]

Simon, did you succeed in your objective ?

(curious)

with kind regards,

 

[simonjackson1964]

Not really...

Right now the canal is the least of my worries.

I'm trying to find out why the trains do random things when I don't have the monitor window open but behave the way they are supposed to when I have it open...

But that is a story for another thread...