Cargo movement with Bruckenkran

[220hotwheels]

Hi all

When using the Bruckenkran, kindly supplied by fmkberlin back in 2016, with large logs, Baumstamme, after lifting the logs it will then move over to the area to which the logs are to be deposited but only then does it decide to rotate said logs before lowering them. Whilst the operation achieves all that is required of it the aesthetics are disappointing to say the least. The poor guy operating the crane is decapitated with most of the gantry structure also being demolished. A similar problem applies to the movement of other cargo too.

My question therefore is thus. Is there anyway to alter the crane behaviour to allow for the cargo to be rotated, or not, prior to it moving from place of pickup to place of discharge.

I wait with fingers crossed for someone's very cleaver answer.

Pete

[Dad3353]

Have the crane take the load to an appropriately orientated invisible destination, simply to get it slung as required, and, from there, go on to the final destination. Is that possible..? 

Der Kran soll die Ladung zu einem entsprechend ausgerichteten, unsichtbaren Zielort bringen, damit sie dort wie gewünscht umgehängt werden kann, und von dort aus weiter zum endgültigen Zielort fahren. Ist das möglich? 

Douglas

[220hotwheels]

4 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

Have the crane take the load to an appropriately orientated invisible destination, simply to get it slung as required, and, from there, go on to the final destination. Is that possible..? 

Der Kran soll die Ladung zu einem entsprechend ausgerichteten, unsichtbaren Zielort bringen, damit sie dort wie gewünscht umgehängt werden kann, und von dort aus weiter zum endgültigen Zielort fahren. Ist das möglich? 

Douglas

Hi Douglas

Thanks for your suggestion although not sure if that would be very practicable even it it did work. It really isn't necessary for the logs to be rotated so if I can stop that element then great all should be well.  I will however take a more concentrated look into said suggestion over the next 24 hours. If it works I'll let you know. If it doesn't then A&E will continue to be very busy!!!!

Pete

[Dad3353]

1 minute ago, 220hotwheels said:

... A&E will continue to be very busy!!!! ...

Animate the bystanders to a safe spot before swinging logs at them..! 

Animieren Sie die Umstehenden zu einem sicheren Ort, bevor Sie Holzscheite auf sie werfen! 

Douglas

[Goetz]

vor 37 Minuten schrieb 220hotwheels:

Is there anyway to alter the crane behaviour

Not for the model builder (to my knowledge).
The behaviour is a function which the studio provides.

[220hotwheels]

2 hours ago, Dad3353 said:

Animate the bystanders to a safe spot before swinging logs at them..! 

Animieren Sie die Umstehenden zu einem sicheren Ort, bevor Sie Holzscheite auf sie werfen! 

Douglas

Where's the fun in that!!

Pete

[220hotwheels]

2 hours ago, Goetz said:

Not for the model builder (to my knowledge).
The behaviour is a function which the studio provides.

Hi Goetz

Many thanks for that insight. Guess I'll just have to wait and see if Neo has any thoughts on the matter.

Pete

[simonjackson1964]

I've noticed this behaviour too, I think that the best way to avoid it is to rotate the logs (or other cargo) yourself by 180° manually, before the crane picks it up. (And save the layout with that change made!)

I have just checked, and this works. Make sure that the logs have the same z rotation as the container floor (or other target) they are being lowered onto, before they are picked up.

Bearbeitet 5. April 2023 von simonjackson1964

[220hotwheels]

17 hours ago, simonjackson1964 said:

I've noticed this behaviour too, I think that the best way to avoid it is to rotate the logs (or other cargo) yourself by 180° manually, before the crane picks it up. (And save the layout with that change made!)

I have just checked, and this works. Make sure that the logs have the same z rotation as the container floor (or other target) they are being lowered onto, before they are picked up.

Hi Simon

Many thanks for your solution. I've been very busy all day today at my daughters installing French doors/suitable frame in order to separate her dining room and lounge. As with all such jobs nothing is straight forward but after 4 days it is now finished and fully functional.

Having read through your suggestion I think I have the measure of what you are suggesting. I'll try some experiments either tonight or tomorrow. I'm using Lua script to transfer the logs from the train to the trucks and the crane to make the transfer from the trucks to the train so I assume if I add a rotate command into the Lua script so that when the logs are transferred they rotate by 180 degrees that might do the trick or do I have to rotate the invisible cargo floor on the trucks by 180 degrees at that point. Anyway  I'll experiment and see what happens.

Thanks once again for your advice.

Pete

[220hotwheels]

1 hour ago, 220hotwheels said:

Hi Simon

Many thanks for your solution. I've been very busy all day today at my daughters installing French doors/suitable frame in order to separate her dining room and lounge. As with all such jobs nothing is straight forward but after 4 days it is now finished and fully functional.

Having read through your suggestion I think I have the measure of what you are suggesting. I'll try some experiments either tonight or tomorrow. I'm using Lua script to transfer the logs from the train to the trucks and the crane to make the transfer from the trucks to the train so I assume if I add a rotate command into the Lua script so that when the logs are transferred they rotate by 180 degrees that might do the trick or do I have to rotate the invisible cargo floor on the trucks by 180 degrees at that point. Anyway  I'll experiment and see what happens.

Thanks once again for your advice.

Pete

Just found a spare hour before moving on to office work that I missed today and have been amazed that I hadn't appreciated that both cargo and cargo deposit pads had actual directional rotation. You learn something new every day. How amazing is this program!!!

Anyway, having got my logs and their respective cargo pads all in sync. the crane lifts and deposits the logs without further rotation, halleluiah.

This however brings me to the next area to tackle. When the freight train arrives in the freight depot it is pointing, lets say north/south with the cargo pads also facing north/south. The trucks however as they arrive are facing south/north. In other words the cargo on the trucks is facing south/north.

When the logs are transferred from the train to the trucks via Lua they currently do so retaining the north/south orientation, it's only when the truck pull alongside the train in the depot that the orientation is reversed. My only solution, if it can be done, is to rotate both the cargo deposit pad and the cargo in Lua at the time that the cargo is moved from the train to the trucks (all of which takes place out of sight), although perhaps I will only need to rotate the cargo at this point just as long as it will settle on the trucks cargo deposit pads back to front, as it were.

So tomorrow presents yet another learning curve with move lateral thinking, yet another challenge for the little grey cells!!

I'll post my conclusions, hopefully later tomorrow.

Pete

[Goetz]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb 220hotwheels:

I hadn't appreciated that both cargo and cargo deposit pads had actual directional rotation

You cannot not have it, Pete.

You need a clear definition of an object's place on your layout. There's no "whatever, both looks the same to me" in computers.
If anything, you may make the additional effort to figure out which of two viable solutions is more suitable.

[simonjackson1964]

There are two solutions to this that I can see.. A simple one and a complex one.

Simple solution: Manually check the orientation of the cargo pads attached to the wagons (ot the wagons themselves if you aren't using cargo pads on them) and make sure they are all pointing the same way as the cargo pads on the trucks when they pull alongside. This solution will only work if you have a loco run-around at both ends of the layout or you use a return loop at one end and either a return loop or a virtual depot with the train reversed on release at the other (unless you are happy to have the train pushed in rather than pulled...)

Complex solution: use Lua to set the wagon or cargo pad to the correct orientation as the train stops.

[220hotwheels]

1 minute ago, simonjackson1964 said:

There are two solutions to this that I can see.. A simple one and a complex one.

Simple solution: Manually check the orientation of the cargo pads attached to the wagons (ot the wagons themselves if you aren't using cargo pads on them) and make sure they are all pointing the same way as the cargo pads on the trucks when they pull alongside. This solution will only work if you have a loco run-around at both ends of the layout or you use a return loop at one end and either a return loop or a virtual depot with the train reversed on release at the other (unless you are happy to have the train pushed in rather than pulled...)

Complex solution: use Lua to set the wagon or cargo pad to the correct orientation as the train stops.

Thanks Simon. I'll experiment tomorrow and let you know how I get on.

Pete

 

[220hotwheels]

7 minutes ago, Goetz said:

You cannot not have it, Pete.

You need a clear definition of an object's place on your layout. There's no "whatever, both looks the same to me" in computers.
If anything, you may make the additional effort to figure out which of two viable solutions is more suitable.

Thanks Goetz. On My test layout I simply marked the front of the deposit pads and the same for the logs. By doing so all worked well. In my current main layout the trains and trucks all follow similar paths, from the freight depot and eventually back to the same point. As I have mentioned to Simon Jackson I plan to experiment tomorrow and see what the outcome brings. My conclusions will be posted then.

Pete

[simonjackson1964]

Some of the time it doesn't matter if something is at 0° or at 180°, at 90° or at -90°. The tracks themselves, for example. The catenary doesn't matter until you want to run two wires side by side, end a wire, or enter a tunnel. Then it does. Freight wagons, again, not normally an issue, unless you want to line the oil tanks up with the oil loading terminal, or you want to split a train in the middle - you need to know which coupler to disable! Passenger cars with animated doors, it matters! And of course anything defined as having an engine has a front and a back.

 

[220hotwheels]

To Dad3353, Goetz and Simonjackson196

Hi to you all

My experiments are now complete and all is working fine. Many thanks for all of your advice.

My conclusion:

The train is in the freight depot, (lets assume pointing north), the logs have been loaded, (they too are set to north/south and I have marked the front of each log pile with the word front. So, I now have the train in position, the orientation of the logs is the same as the train. The train moves off, completes its journey around the layout and stops on invisible track. The empty trucks in the meantime have moved to an invisible road parallel to the invisible track. When the train stops the logs are transferred by Lua code to the waiting trucks but are now rotated by 180 degrees so that the front of each log stack is at the rear of the trailer. 

Once the trailer has arrived back at the freight depot (it's pointing to the south) along with the train (once again pointing to the north) the crane simply lifts the logs, places them back on the flatcar without the need to rotate. The front of the logs are facing the same direction as the train.

I hope that explanation is clear enough. Suffice it to say that all is now well so I can now move on to my next problem. Onwards and upwards, as they say.

Pete