A strange problem with TC's

[220hotwheels]

Hi to all my fellow enthusiasts

I hope someone will be able to explain why the following is happening.

I am in the process of creating a layout with a curved station, 4 main tracks with 3 side tracks , so far so good. Tracks 1 and 4 have platforms. Tracks 2 and 3 are for through trains.

So far I have only concentrated on tracks 1 and 3. Track 3 has no issues, however, track 1 is giving me distinct problems. Trains arrive on track 1 at 45kph. There are then 3 TC's that reduce the speed as the trains moves along the platform. The first of these reduces the speed to 30kph, the second to 20kph and the third to 10kph before coming to the station stop TC. For the whole of yesterday these worked perfectly. All 5 trains on this track did precisely what they were supposed to do. Today I turned on my computer, went into MBS and set the trains in motion. Not one train would recognise any of the TC's and would not even stop at the appropriate stop signal. This is not the first time I have experienced this with this layout. Previously I simply removed the TC's and reintroduced new ones making sure that any reference in my EV was also amended. I've also tried moving the TC's along the track to different positions, Sometimes this works other times it does not.

I am therefore at a bit of a loss to understand what is happening so if anyone else has experienced something like this and found the solution then I would love to hear the solution.

Out of curiosity I have created a simple layout with the curved track and don't seem able to duplicate this problem. My first thought was to assume that as the platforms were created with spline sections and were still showing category as  "railroad" this might be where the issue lay. I changed this to "3D model only" but this made no difference. If it didn't work all of the time I could understand this more that it would seem to be very intermittent.

All suggestions gratefully received.

Pete

 

[Goetz]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb 220hotwheels:

Not one train would recognise any of the TC's and would not even stop at the appropriate stop signal.

Sounds like you have two tracks ontop each other.
With luck, your trains run on the same track that carrys the contacts.
Next day chance may have it that the train enters the other track instead.

[220hotwheels]

11 minutes ago, Goetz said:

Sounds like you have two tracks ontop each other.
With luck, your trains run on the same track that carrys the contacts.
Next day chance may have it that the train enters the other track instead.

 

11 minutes ago, Goetz said:

Sounds like you have two tracks ontop each other.
With luck, your trains run on the same track that carrys the contacts.
Next day chance may have it that the train enters the other track instead.

Hi Goetz

I would never have thought of that. I have since checked and, as you suggested, found a track on top of another on 2 sections of the station platform track. I have now removed these and the next train into the station missed the TC to reduce to 20kph but did locate the 10kph TC and the stop TC so it would seem that your recommendation is as they say "on the money".

I'll go back now over the track section for the 20kph to investigate this a little more. Very many thanks for your extraordinary quick reply and solution, which simply highlights that most problems are caused by carelessness. This is one error that I will not repeat.

I hope you have had a great Christmas, all the very best to you and your family for the coming New Year.

Pete

[simonjackson1964]

The other possibility is that the train is still over the track contact that sets the speed to 30kph when it hits the second contact that sets the speed to 20. I've had this happen before, and it creates a conflict in the system, causing the train to ignore the speed set by the second contact and keep moving at the speed set by the first.

There are a couple of possible answers: one is (obviously) to shorten the train or lengthen the gap between the contacts, but this is not always possible. Another is to increase the breaking time of the locomotive, and remove the intermediate contacts. The train should then slow down realistically.

My final solution is one I'm not sure will work, and it depends on how you have things set up. If you use the "Decelerate to" option on the contact itself, and don't use the "Accelerate to" option, these should work cumulatively. A train already travelling slower than 30kph will not be affected by a command to slow to that speed.

...........................

Edit to add: I have tested this (at V8.5) and it does exactly what it's supposed to. However, the problem ten comes when you start the train again, as it will still be sitting on one or more contacts telling it to slow down.

The solution is to have an event that turns off all the deceleration contacts, when the signal is changed (Note that this will also work even if the train didn't stop!)

 

Bearbeitet gestern um 17:25 Uhr von simonjackson1964
Tested the hypothesis

[220hotwheels]

16 hours ago, simonjackson1964 said:

The other possibility is that the train is still over the track contact that sets the speed to 30kph when it hits the second contact that sets the speed to 20. I've had this happen before, and it creates a conflict in the system, causing the train to ignore the speed set by the second contact and keep moving at the speed set by the first.

There are a couple of possible answers: one is (obviously) to shorten the train or lengthen the gap between the contacts, but this is not always possible. Another is to increase the breaking time of the locomotive, and remove the intermediate contacts. The train should then slow down realistically.

My final solution is one I'm not sure will work, and it depends on how you have things set up. If you use the "Decelerate to" option on the contact itself, and don't use the "Accelerate to" option, these should work cumulatively. A train already travelling slower than 30kph will not be affected by a command to slow to that speed.

...........................

Edit to add: I have tested this (at V8.5) and it does exactly what it's supposed to. However, the problem ten comes when you start the train again, as it will still be sitting on one or more contacts telling it to slow down.

The solution is to have an event that turns off all the deceleration contacts, when the signal is changed (Note that this will also work even if the train didn't stop!)

 

Hi Simon

Many thanks for all of your suggestions. I will bear them in mind for the future.

My problem was however solved by Goetz insight. How on earth I had managed to do this I really don't know but nevertheless I had managed to have upto 3 sections of track on top of one another in one place and a couple of tracks on top of one another in two other places on the curve in the station. Having sorted this out the problem simply disappeared. All track contacts did what they were supposed to do and each train reduced its' speed at the right point.

So I seem to have ended 2024 adding a new membership to my belt, "The Clutts Club", mind you I think I have been in the wigs for this nomination for some time. Take care and all the very best for 2025.

Pete

[Phrontistes]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb 220hotwheels:

How on earth I had managed to do this I really don't know

Duplicate the track and forget it.

[simonjackson1964]

That's why I use the + sign on the end of the track!

[220hotwheels]

3 hours ago, simonjackson1964 said:

That's why I use the + sign on the end of the track!

Yep me too. On reflection I think the error must have occurred when I selected each piece of track in the station and did a copy then  pasted into a test layout. Perhaps I was too enthusiastic with the copy bit.

No matter all is now well so thanks for your advice

Pete

[Goetz]

vor 12 Minuten schrieb 220hotwheels:

Perhaps I was too enthusiastic with the copy bit.

The "Duplicate" command immediately places a copy on your layout.
Unlike a classic "copy" which would hold the copy in a clipboard for later retrieval.

ctrl + D = duplicate
ctrl + C = copy to clipboard

easy to mistype with C and D being adjacent characters on a keyboard.

[220hotwheels]

4 minutes ago, Goetz said:

The "Duplicate" command immediately places a copy on your layout.
Unlike a classic "copy" which would hold the copy in a clipboard for later retrieval.

ctrl + D = duplicate
ctrl + C = copy to clipboard

easy to mistype with C and D being adjacent characters on a keyboard.

Thanks Goetz, yep I do quite a lot of mistyping. I try to do it all just too fast sometimes. I think my fingers go just a little too fast for brain to keep up, we'll that's my excuse anyway.

Pete

[Goetz]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb 220hotwheels:

I try to do it all just too fast sometimes.

Not a problem.
I just figured that it helps to know the typical pitfalls ...

[220hotwheels]

38 minutes ago, Goetz said:

Not a problem.
I just figured that it helps to know the typical pitfalls ...