Program freeze !!!

[220hotwheels]

Hi to all

I have a number of vehicles that have their routes set individually. Most have upto 4 separate routes and all work well in themselves. However I do find that when a vehicle makes contact with the TC that will start it's particular route the vehicle will stop, sometimes only momentarily, other times for several seconds. If the latter then the whole program freezes and is only unfrozen when that particular vehicle actually starts its designated route. This is most apparent when there are 7 or more instructions within the route. Many of the "objects" set are used by other vehicles as well but I cannot believe this would cause the problem.

Is this a normal phenomena or is there a way to resolve it. As things stand at the moment when this freezing occurs it can sometimes adversely affect other vehicles and their routes depending upon the intricacy of said vehicles movements at that time. Currently I have in excess of 40 vehicles on this particular layout so things need to work perfectly.

I have attached a screenshot of one of the vehicle routes in question.

All advice gratefully received.

Pete

[Sintbert]

If the whole Program freezes, then you like have a Endlessloop in your EV.

[220hotwheels]

Hi Sintbert

Thanks for that although at this moment in time I'm not too sure how to investigate this. The problem is worst with one particular vehicle, the VW Golf in the screenshot as it starts route 2. The whole program freezes for about 15 seconds. With others it is no more than either 1 or 2 seconds at best or 5 seconds at worst.

How do I start to investigate an endless loop?

Pete

[Goetz]

Hello Pete,

vor einer Stunde schrieb 220hotwheels:

I do find that when a vehicle makes contact with the TC that will start it's particular route the vehicle will stop, sometimes only momentarily, other times for several seconds.

I experience the same here just now, as it happens.
When I pass a list of targets to a vehicle, the calculating time for the route increases exponantially with the number of targets in the list.

The workload for the route finder increases exponantially, because the possibilities do too with each additional step.

My conclusion: When dynamic route assignment is desired, it's advisable to only assign the next target ahead at each waypoint.
When the entire route is fixed (e.g. a bus route), you may assign that route once only, maybe at the start of the program.

 

vor 14 Minuten schrieb 220hotwheels:

How do I start to investigate an endless loop?

Open and observe the event trace window.

 

Greets
Goetz

[220hotwheels]

Morning Goetz

Many thanks for your advice. In a way it's good to know that you too have experienced this problem. Most of the vehicles designated specific routes have their overall route already split into either 4 or 5 sections because of the specific need for direction change at the older style junctions. However within each of these separate routes there are as many as 13 different waypoints listed and some of those waypoints are also included in other vehicle route listings.

So I will follow your recommendation for this particular vehicle initially and introduce 4 separate routes (reducing the number of waypoint in each) to replace the one 'route2' for this VW Golf and see if that sorts out the problem. If it does then I can adopt the same solution to any others.

I'll let you know the outcome either way.

Cheers

Pete

 

[220hotwheels]

Hi Goetz

Well, your suggestion has worked just fine. Part one of route 2 with only 3 waypoints and the little VW Golf stops only momentarily before going on it's merry way. So lots to do now to improve other hiccups but at least the little grey cells have gained yet more knowledge, with yet another problem solved, in what seems to be a merry go round of problems and solutions. Life's never dull with 3D Train Studio and would we want it any other way?

Cheers 

Pete

[Goetz]

vor 56 Minuten schrieb 220hotwheels:

and would we want it any other way?

Never!

[220hotwheels]

Good afternoon Goetz

Having applied your recommendation to most routes then the program lag has drastically reduced as the route finder has less work to do before confirming the assigned route. My current problem is perhaps the number of individual routes applied to my present layout. 1.5 seconds seems to be the longest lag caused to the movement of  most items but even so this can throw some element out of sync especially if there are several such lags within a short period of time and such lags happen whilst a vehicle is negotiating a junction with traffic lights or something similar. 

Clearly this problem only appears to apply to specific routes applied to a particular vehicle, I currently have over 30 such routes, these being essential when a particular route involves specific junction changes/portals or reverse directions. For those routes set as a single round trip route then there does not appear to be any issue. In your opinion is there anything further that you feel I might be able to do to reduce this problem. I've read your conversations with Herman but my problem is that nothing is currently able to share the same route fully. If there is nothing further that I am able to do then do you feel that a future update might possibly address this issue, or am I just clutching at straws?

Perhaps it's time to get back to the drawing board rather than maintaining an optimistic view that all will come right in the end!!!

Kind regards

Pete

[Goetz]

vor 25 Minuten schrieb 220hotwheels:

In your opinion is there anything further that you feel I might be able to do to reduce this problem.

You may give each vehicle a single target only and then assign the next one upon arrival at this destination.
 

vor 26 Minuten schrieb 220hotwheels:

Perhaps it's time to get back to the drawing board ...

Perhaps   

[Dad3353]

Pete...

I have, as you know, an earlier version of this layout. My PC is rather modest (HP8200, i5, 12Go memory...), and it takes quite a while to load. Once loaded and set to 'Play', I eventually see some movement ( a stuttering train or crane jib...). When I set off a truck along its path, at a moderate 30, it judders along as if firing on only two cylinders, at equivalent of less than walking pace. The 'frame rate' is between 3 and 4, 10-15% of PC power is used, and a quarter of its memory. Maybe you have a faster PC than mine (I would hope so...), but the layout is enormous..! Splendid, but so rich in all its glory that my PC can't appreciate it. As an aside, I'd add that, when I wish to work on, or study, the layout, I have to select a section and eliminate the rest, as it's far too slow, even when just scrolling around in 'Edit' mode..! A brilliant work, but very, very heavyweight (at least for my PC...). Hope this helps. 

Ich habe, wie Sie wissen, eine frühere Version dieses Layouts. Mein PC ist eher bescheiden (HP8200, i5, 12Go-Speicher...), und das Laden dauert ziemlich lange. Einmal geladen und auf 'Play' eingestellt, sehe ich schließlich eine Bewegung (einen stotternden Zug oder einen Kranausleger ...). Wenn ich einen Lastwagen mit moderaten 30 auf seinem Weg anfahre, ruckelt er, als würde er nur auf zwei Zylinder feuern, was weniger als Schrittgeschwindigkeit entspricht. Die „Framerate“ liegt zwischen 3 und 4, 10-15 % der PC-Leistung und ein Viertel des Speichers werden verbraucht. Vielleicht haben Sie einen schnelleren PC als meiner (hoffentlich...), aber das Layout ist enorm...! Herrlich, aber so reich an all seiner Pracht, dass mein PC es nicht zu schätzen weiß. Nebenbei möchte ich hinzufügen, dass ich, wenn ich am Layout arbeiten oder es studieren möchte, einen Abschnitt auswählen und den Rest entfernen muss, da dies viel zu langsam ist, selbst wenn ich nur im Modus „Bearbeiten“ herumscrolle ..! Eine geniale Arbeit, aber sehr, sehr schwergewichtig (zumindest für meinen PC...). Hoffe das hilft. 

Bearbeitet 2. April 2022 von Dad3353

[220hotwheels]

3 hours ago, Goetz said:

You may give each vehicle a single target only and then assign the next one upon arrival at this destination.
 

Perhaps   

Hi Goetz

Many thanks for that, I think!! A further rethink is on the cards, especially after Douglas's comment about how slow elements of my layout run on his machine. Fortunately I don't have that problem apart from the occasional stutter brought about by lag as each vehicle sets it's next target. With luck and time I might just get that solved now.

Further knowledge to my expanding learning curve awaits.

Many thanks

Pete

[220hotwheels]

3 hours ago, Dad3353 said:

Pete...

I have, as you know, an earlier version of this layout. My PC is rather modest (HP8200, i5, 12Go memory...), and it takes quite a while to load. Once loaded and set to 'Play', I eventually see some movement ( a stuttering train or crane jib...). When I set off a truck along its path, at a moderate 30, it judders along as if firing on only two cylinders, at equivalent of less than walking pace. The 'frame rate' is between 3 and 4, 10-15% of PC power is used, and a quarter of its memory. Maybe you have a faster PC than mine (I would hope so...), but the layout is enormous..! Splendid, but so rich in all its glory that my PC can't appreciate it. As an aside, I'd add that, when I wish to work on, or study, the layout, I have to select a section and eliminate the rest, as it's far too slow, even when just scrolling around in 'Edit' mode..! A brilliant work, but very, very heavyweight (at least for my PC...). Hope this helps. 

Ich habe, wie Sie wissen, eine frühere Version dieses Layouts. Mein PC ist eher bescheiden (HP8200, i5, 12Go-Speicher...), und das Laden dauert ziemlich lange. Einmal geladen und auf 'Play' eingestellt, sehe ich schließlich eine Bewegung (einen stotternden Zug oder einen Kranausleger ...). Wenn ich einen Lastwagen mit moderaten 30 auf seinem Weg anfahre, ruckelt er, als würde er nur auf zwei Zylinder feuern, was weniger als Schrittgeschwindigkeit entspricht. Die „Framerate“ liegt zwischen 3 und 4, 10-15 % der PC-Leistung und ein Viertel des Speichers werden verbraucht. Vielleicht haben Sie einen schnelleren PC als meiner (hoffentlich...), aber das Layout ist enorm...! Herrlich, aber so reich an all seiner Pracht, dass mein PC es nicht zu schätzen weiß. Nebenbei möchte ich hinzufügen, dass ich, wenn ich am Layout arbeiten oder es studieren möchte, einen Abschnitt auswählen und den Rest entfernen muss, da dies viel zu langsam ist, selbst wenn ich nur im Modus „Bearbeiten“ herumscrolle ..! Eine geniale Arbeit, aber sehr, sehr schwergewichtig (zumindest für meinen PC...). Hoffe das hilft. 

Hi Douglas

Many thanks for the insight into the problems my layout causes, I hadn't realised this as it runs well on my PC apart from the stutters caused by vehicles changing from one part of their designated route to another so now I must rethink quite a bit of this in an attempt to smooth these out. Heaven forbid that the AFS fleet of 30 trucks has to be trimmed down, so I need to get this right. Everything else is now on hold as I concentrate on one vehicle at a time. Certainly I don't think the problem is my PC. I have plenty of RAM, 48GB, an i7 processor and high end Nvidia graphics card when I load the layout it runs around 40 to 60 fps, memory usage is about 30%, cpu 17% and gpu 35% but it does use a fair amount of power. However one of the grandsons sometimes uses it for his computer games and he tells me that it is just fine, so well just have to see.

Back to the drawing board.

Pete

[Dad3353]

1 hour ago, 220hotwheels said:

...RAM, 48GB, an i7 processor and high end Nvidia graphics card when I load the layout it runs around 40 to 60 fps, memory usage is about 30%, cpu 17% and gpu 35%...

This explains a lot; that's, to me, a very high-spec PC for this kind of stuff. Next stop : Deep Blue, maybe..? Or is that, too, 'old hat' like my poor machine..? 

Das erklärt viel; das ist für mich ein sehr hochwertiger PC für solche Sachen. Nächster Halt: Deep Blue, vielleicht ...? Oder ist das auch ein 'alter Hut' wie meine arme Maschine..? 

[220hotwheels]

23 hours ago, Dad3353 said:

This explains a lot; that's, to me, a very high-spec PC for this kind of stuff. Next stop : Deep Blue, maybe..? Or is that, too, 'old hat' like my poor machine..? 

Das erklärt viel; das ist für mich ein sehr hochwertiger PC für solche Sachen. Nächster Halt: Deep Blue, vielleicht ...? Oder ist das auch ein 'alter Hut' wie meine arme Maschine..? 

Hi Douglas

I don't know about "Deep Blue" more like egg on face and a winding handle. All of that said, thanks to Goetz and a bit of a rethink today plus quite a bit of a reshuffle and so far, fingers crossed, no further problems with lag as each vehicle moves from one set route to another. Tomorrow I'll try a complete run through just to be satisfied.

Pete

[220hotwheels]

On 4/2/2022 at 5:30 PM, Goetz said:

You may give each vehicle a single target only and then assign the next one upon arrival at this destination.
 

Perhaps   

Hi Goetz

Having followed your advice more closely with a few modifications to the layout it would seem that the lag issue is all but gone now. Tomorrow I will try a full run through so fingers crossed all will be well.

Many thanks for the continued patience and advice.

Kind regards

Pete