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V8 - Strange behavior - Contacts and Routes


hmclay

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I've been chasing some problems since changing over to V8 ... 

The train does NOT stop at a contact with Decel set to zero. Remove the cars attached, and the Engine stops as it should. Re-couple cars and the train Decels to zero speed, then continues on as if the Accel is set (it is not). Now I remove the last car, and it stops. Re-attched last car .... continues on. I'm going from 6 to 7 cars, all Boxcars .... seven created the problem.

This is the second instance, the first instance (different engine and a variety of cars) had 12 to 14 cars, and I could only solve the problem by stopping the engine when the contact was entered. Strange. Have changed engine type, but same behavior!

Routes are not consistently working. Although a route is free, the program does not think so. Manually set speed, and train follows the route perfectly. 

Anyone else having difficulty with the bright white border around selected objects. I have trouble lining items up because of it.

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19 hours ago, hmclay said:

Remove the cars attached, and the Engine stops as it should. Re-couple cars and the train Decels to zero speed, then continues on as if the Accel is set (it is not).

Hello, only suspection : is there an acceleration contact  ( to close ) before the deceleration contact. ( could even be a signal ) As long as one of the cars in the whole train is on the acceleration contact, the train continues and does not stop. Solution : put the acc. contact further away. Or better, take a TrCt and when it is triggered let the train via EV go to a certain speed.

But for the rest, we need more information, or an example to judge what caused the problem. Does my description help you ?
Kind regards, Herman 

Edited by Herman
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I had this exact problem at V6, and realised what was causing it. Move the acceleration contact or signal further away to allow for the length of the train, as @Herman says

As for lining up objects, I use the X, Y and Z coordinates, copy them from the item you have placed, and paste them into theitem you are positioning, then using the local gizmo, slide the new object until it is where you want it, or it snaps into place.

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Thanks for the contact problem and solution. I didn't think about a car attached being on a contact ... I only thought about where the engine was located ... since that is what pulls the train! Never imagined a car pushing the engine. 

As for lining up ... an example of difficulty ... putting people on a platform or in a cable car etc.  The white lines obscure exactly where their feet or "behind" is. I must get out of the gizmo to see, then try to judge just how far to move the object and get out of the gizmo again.... may take several tries. Not a big fan of the thick white lines ... but like some of V8's new features.

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10 hours ago, hmclay said:

Never imagined a car pushing the engine. 

That is so,  but look at  the other way.  It is possible a loc pushes a lot of cars. ( ex. shunting )  Since the signals in V7 and V8 have an acceleration track contact that can be set reacting on green. If a part of the whole train, in this case the car on the signal is on the track contact, the locomotiv can start. Of course you can also work with the EV to have other effects. 

Kind regards, Herman

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Now that I understand what the program does, I can work around it as I did by switching the locomotive engine off on the long train.  I just didn't know why I had to do that. From the info I received here, now I know  ... and it will not take me as long to correct the situation! Just another thing my mom forgot to teach me.

Thanks for the responses!

Edited by hmclay
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 2/8/2023 at 4:25 AM, hmclay said:

As for lining up ... an example of difficulty ... putting people on a platform or in a cable car etc.  The white lines obscure exactly where their feet or "behind" is. I must get out of the gizmo to see, then try to judge just how far to move the object and get out of the gizmo again.... may take several tries. Not a big fan of the thick white lines ... but like some of V8's new features.

For putting people on a platform, use the "automatic height adjustment - stacking" settingCapture.thumb.JPG.f9e17e3b168f5222cdbf2987707189fa.JPG

If, for some random reason, you want to put Achim on top of the platform canopy, there is a neat little trick:

Capture.thumb.JPG.38d8191eac0df9f9a9aa9491cb6b5853.JPG

Copy the height of the object you want to place the other object on top of, then paste that into the Z coordinate of the object being placed.Capture.thumb.JPG.75913ff87c77e491d49bd9e48687cd70.JPG

 

This technique is great for getting things lined up exactly. For example, positioning a buffer on the end of a length of track when it's not the one with the auto-positioning.

Capture.thumb.JPG.5c7d2af5e28f39a69a1c2a30443f4402.JPG

The first thing to remember is that for reasons that will never be disclosed, the buffer is oriented 90° to the track at 0° Z-rotation. so we have to adust for that. With the track oriented at 11.03° Z, the buffer needs to be 11.3° - 90° = -78.97°

Capture.JPG.a2513348330f69d095362a7cd7d647e4.JPG

Then transpose the  X and Y coordinates (and Z if not 0) from the track to the buffer This will place the buffer right in the centre of that length of track.

NOTE For this to work, the length of track must be straight.

Then use the local gizmo to slide the buffer along the track to the end.

Capture.JPG.7d163ef61502c4738462b20b03cd624f.JPG

This is definitely the easiest way to make sure things that need to line up, are lined up.

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simonjackson196 ..... Thanks for the reply and information ... I sure didn't know about the buffer at 90 degrees from the track.

As for putting Achim on the top of the platform canopy, he goes there automatically using the stack option. Thats a problem for me, because above that is an elevated train. Then I try to use the gizmo to put him on the platform, and the white lines are a nuisance. If I knew the height of everything involved, I could type the height in, but that may even take more effort to determine. Sure would be nice to see around/through the white lines. Isn't that what the gizmo is designed for ... lining things up ? I would like the option to turn that feature off! Still a great program, just some things that require a work around.

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All platform versions have a variant without the canopy. The height of every object is obtainable from the object information window.

P-height1.thumb.jpg.75e6770e38383a5ee29f15bbe26a287e.jpg

Bettina is getting dizzy standing on the roof, she has no head for heights...

P-height2.thumb.jpg.d284553aa0bdfd6a2e6ddc7595f994e0.jpgP-height3.thumb.jpg.6dee32ee578540def4f1365c3b2743d7.jpg

So if we set her Z-coordinate to the height we found earlier of the platform without a canopy:

P-height4.thumb.jpg.b55fd72943c51da454e73020c7509e8a.jpg

She is back down where she belongs.

QED

========

Or the other way of doing it which works better for putting passengers and drivers in vehicles that don't have contact points:

Capture.JPG.aa6d2f37a7b279b6e62969bfd2c6c91a.JPG

Put the passenger/driver on the ground. Z = 0. The vehicle beside her line them up to face the right way. Then move the vehicle over the person, not the other way around.

Capture.JPG.73d60061b9b235244d5db0c069dcffd9.JPG

Lower the vehicle to the required height so he person is sitting in the seat.

Capture.thumb.JPG.ae4741d0ea4773b342a486865a259791.JPG

Finally, link the person to the vehicle - if there is no contact point you will have to do so anyway for the person to stay in the vehicle as it moves, and then pu the vehicle on the track

Capture.thumb.JPG.b03c57e2d473c9dbd390d9105d09e673.JPG

The gizmo allows you to position things as an analogue. The X, Y, Z coordinates allow digitally accurate positioning to the millimetre (at 1:1 scale).

Edited by simonjackson1964
More info:
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That is a neat trick for the driver in the car. Sort of like reverse engineering.

I would still like to turn the outlines off in certain situations. I have a terminal consisting of an elevated platform above a platform, made up with varying sizes (scaled) platforms held up by scaled stone/brick columns. ( as only one example). Putting items on and beneath is a chore. Would be nice to use the gizmo and place them. Same problem putting virtual tracks beneath for people to walk on. And I have not mastered putting virtual tracks in the air for aircraft. They go everywhere, especially when trying to make the aircraft bank in a turn. Got any tricks up your sleeve to help me? I need all the help I can get.

Thanks

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vor 8 Minuten schrieb hmclay:

I would still like to turn the outlines off in certain situations.

I just found that

  • when you sort all objects into layers
  • and fixate (pin) the layers
  • the objects no longer respond to your mouse cursor while you're in simulation mode.

Hope that helps (as a temporary measure)?

Edited by Goetz
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Goetz ... thanks for the reply. I have just started using/understanding layers. I also should have studied them earlier and made my life easier.

Your help is appreciated, and I will try that technique!

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