Virtual Depots

[220hotwheels]

Hi

I have recently started to take virtual depot's more seriously in an effort to try to trim down the size of my current layout. It is working but not as much as I had hoped, perhaps my need for a truly realistic layout is the route cause.

Anyway I digress. An issue that I have come across relates to a problem with switches and other instructions within my EV which encapsulate, let us say for argument, 5 trains all on the same overall track/portals/virtual depot's. The problem comes when one of the trains is in a virtual depot and one or more of the others are negotiating a switch, this particular switch being common to all of the trains but there are others that are not common to all, perhaps only one or two. The instruction in the EV is simply ignored.  I have got round this temporarily by placing a separate TC for each train, but I feel this to be very messy, I'm sure someone would be able to point me in the right direction in order to a) reduce the number of TC's and b) cover the whole instruction in one "simple" line of EV. No doubt the introduction of variables might provide the answer but my thus far feeble attempt has not proved to be of any use.

All suggestions gratefully received.

Pete

[Goetz]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb 220hotwheels:

All suggestions gratefully received.

Can't help without you showing what you did.
I need to know your method before I can offer an alternative.

A train in the depot doesn't exist in your little world until it reappears.
That's the root of your predicament. 

Greets
Goetz

[Phrontistes]

Hi Pete,

vor 3 Stunden schrieb 220hotwheels:

The problem comes when one of the trains is in a virtual depot ...

That's the problem. You cannot deal with as vehicle in a virtuel depot. The vehicle-object does not longer exist once the vehicle entered the depot.

vor 3 Stunden schrieb 220hotwheels:

No doubt the introduction of variables might provide the answer

Yes. In the following example I declare a modul-variable of type object named "TrainToFollow"

and I store the vehicle-object of the vehicle leaving the depot west in this modul-variable for further use.

vor 4 Stunden schrieb 220hotwheels:

but my thus far feeble attempt has not proved to be of any use

You will have to deal with this in order to progress.

Kind regards

Phrontistes

[220hotwheels]

13 hours ago, Goetz said:

Can't help without you showing what you did.
I need to know your method before I can offer an alternative.

A train in the depot doesn't exist in your little world until it reappears.
That's the root of your predicament. 

Greets
Goetz

Good morning Goetz

How remiss of me not to include a screenshot of the EV in question but to simply assume that everyone would know what I was trying to say. Those little grey cells need more than just a gentle nudge!!

Therefore, please find attached a screenshot of said EV. Everything works perfectly fine just so long as no train listed in this EV is in a Virtual depot but the moment one is then the instructions to all others goes out the window.

I'm sure there will be a solution, other than to give each train it's own TC but I regret my knowledge just doesn't stretch that far yet.

I've taken a brief look at the solution offered by Phrontistes but as yet have not been able to workout if it will solve my issue.

Kind regards

Pete

[220hotwheels]

11 hours ago, Phrontistes said:

Hi Pete,

That's the problem. You cannot deal with as vehicle in a virtuel depot. The vehicle-object does not longer exist once the vehicle entered the depot.

Yes. In the following example I declare a modul-variable of type object named "TrainToFollow"

and I store the vehicle-object of the vehicle leaving the depot west in this modul-variable for further use.

You will have to deal with this in order to progress.

Kind regards

Phrontistes

Hi Phrontistes

Thank you so much for taking the trouble to reply to my enquiry. My EV knowledge is still somewhat limited but I will take more time to consider and evaluate your kind suggestion in order to see if it will help.

Once again many thanks

Pete

[Phrontistes]

vor 57 Minuten schrieb 220hotwheels:

find attached a screenshot of said EV

Here you have a problem:

This is not allowed. You may not target a vehicle object when the vehicle could be in a depot.

Kind regards

Phrontistes

Bearbeitet 12. August 2023 von Phrontistes
Amendment

[220hotwheels]

17 minutes ago, Phrontistes said:

Here you have a problem:

This is not allowed. You may not target a vehicle object when the vehicle could be in a depot.

Kind regards

Phrontistes

Yes I understand that is where the problem lies I just don't know how best to solve the issue other than to allocate a separate TC for each of the trains, although I can reduce the number of TC from 6, in this instance, to probably 3 by carefully allocating batches of 2 trains to each of the 3 EV's. Even so that seems to be a bit of an amateurish solution and as there will ultimately be a total of 10 trains at least requiring to negotiate these switches I think I need to find an alternative solution.

Kind regards

Pete

[Herman]

Hello Pete. . Yes the "Empty" vehicle is the problem.  If you do not use  the vehicle itself but a trigger ( vehicle) , there is always for the EV a correct vehicle there on the track contact. If not it would not be triggered.
Then use a variable in the vehicle , if that variable exist, look in the variable which train it is.
Does this help, or do I have to make/give an little .mbp to demonstrate ? Maybe @Goetz has a little example in his sleeve ?
Kind regards, Herman

Bearbeitet 12. August 2023 von Herman

[Phrontistes]

Hi Pete,

vor 14 Minuten schrieb 220hotwheels:

allocate a separate TC for each of the trains

That's not the solution because you have still empty vehicle-objects.

In general, you drive a hell of an effort to switch switches. Use the routes to switch signals and switches, then you won't have any more problems. I never switch a signal or a switch with the event management, but always by route.

Kind regards

Phrontistes

 

[Phrontistes]

Hello @Herman,

vor 3 Minuten schrieb Herman:

variable in the vehicle

I already hinted at that

vor 12 Stunden schrieb Phrontistes:

You will have to deal with this [variables] in order to progress.

but variables aren't his thing

vor 17 Stunden schrieb 220hotwheels:

variables might provide the answer but my thus far feeble attempt has not proved to be of any use.

Kind regards

Phrontistes

[Phrontistes]

vor 8 Minuten schrieb Herman:

if that variable exist, look in the variable which train it is.

Hi Pete,

this ist also very important: First check whether the variable exists.

Kind regards

Phrontistes

[Herman]

6 minutes ago, Phrontistes said:

I already hinted at that

Ok @Phrontistes , yes I know ok, I wanted to say go explicitly for variables. I should advice @220hotwheels to use variables. They are not so difficult to use.
But of course it's his choice.
Regards, Herman

[Herman]

Hello @220hotwheels , I made this one. To set a switch.mbp
I tried to keep it very basic. But of course, sorry with variables and triggers.   See if you can use it, or not. Only to help.
Kind regards, Herman

Addendum/ Feel free to ask questions about this, if you want. 

Bearbeitet 12. August 2023 von Herman
picture

[220hotwheels]

16 minutes ago, Herman said:

Hello 220hotwheels , I made this one. To set a switch.mbp
I tried to keep it very basic. But of course, sorry with variables and triggers.   See if you can use it, or not. Only to help.
Kind regards, Herman

Addendum/ Feel free to ask questions about this, if you want. 

Hi Herman

Many thanks for your suggestion. As I have said to so many members over time I don't know if I'm just stupid but having downloaded your switch.mbp I don't seem to be able to open it. All I get is a blank screen.

I do however take both your point and that of Phontistes that variables are the answer so I will simply delve in to that world and see how far I get.

Thanks to you both

Pete

p.s. I'll keep trying to sort out the download issue.

[Herman]

Hello @220hotwheels ,sorry I did not know that.

Click on the picture of the mbp in the forum, and en let it go to your download map ( in windows ).
When you have it there. Start V8 , go to online catalog. You can open it in your V8. You do have V8 ?

Kind regards, Herman

Bearbeitet 12. August 2023 von Herman

[Phrontistes]

Hi Pete,

vor 12 Minuten schrieb 220hotwheels:

having downloaded your switch.mbp I don't seem to be able to open it. All I get is a blank screen.

Are you using version 8? Then it should always work because the 3D Train Studio is backwards compatible.

I think it's more convenient than Herman's suggestion not to start 3D Train Studio and simply double-click on the downloaded file, then the program opens immediately with the file.

Send a screenshot, maybe we can help you. Opening an mbp file is actually not a problem.

Kind regards

Phrontistes

Bearbeitet 12. August 2023 von Phrontistes
typo

[220hotwheels]

40 minutes ago, Phrontistes said:

Hi Pete,

Are you using version 8? Then it should always work because the 3D Train Studio is backwards compatible.

I think it's more convenient than Herman's suggestion not to start 3D Train Studio and simply double-click on the downloaded file, then the program opens immediately with the file.

Send a screenshot, maybe we can help you. Opening an mbp file is actually not a problem.

Kind regards

Phrontistes

Yep I am using V8 and yes I always used to find opening an *.mbp file in the way you suggested was OK and simple but since a recent Windows upgrade that does not seem to work. Taking a screen shot is also different. Before this upgrade simply pressing the screenshot key would take a screenshot. Not so now the process is somewhat more convoluted but nevertheless it's not too bad. Anyway having followed Herman's suggestion I was able to open the file and will now start to work through his suggestion.

Cheers

Pete

[220hotwheels]

50 minutes ago, Herman said:

Hello 220hotwheels ,sorry I did not know that.

Click on the picture of the mbp in the forum, and en let it go to your download map ( in windows ).
When you have it there. Start V8 , go to online catalog. You can open it in your V8. You do have V8 ?

Kind regards, Herman

Thanks for that Herman. As you have probably picked up from reply to Phontistes I am using V8, and have been able to open your file following your advice. Why it will not open directly from the Windows file manager as was the case before I have no idea.  Anyway, I will start to work through your example later today and let you know how it all works out.

Once again many thanks for all your advice.

Cheers

Pete

[prinz]

@220hotwheels ,

If a train is in a depot, it does not longer exist as an object. All references outside the depot were cleared and replaced by an empty object ([leer]), even in EV.

But you could use the name instead the object itself (if names are unique):

Change the preset "Object" in the vehicle setting by "Object (Name)". It works like you desired with the object itself and is not changed, when train is in a depot.

 

And - by the way - you can make EV more easier, if you use the possibilities of graphical EV. Here:
You defined the track contact "TC-set Pre freight terminal jn's" as trigger. Now you don't need to reselect the TC in "Track/Track contact" settings.
Just change the type in "Trigger".

Best regards,
    Wolfgang

[Phrontistes]

Hi Wolfgang,

vor 8 Minuten schrieb prinz:

setting by "Object (Name)"

You never stop learning. I've always wondered what that's good for . Now I know it .

Kind regards

Phrontistes

[Phrontistes]

vor 21 Minuten schrieb prinz:

empty object ([leer])

In the english version shown as "[empty]" .

Best regards

Phrontistes

Bearbeitet 12. August 2023 von Phrontistes
typo

[220hotwheels]

Thanks for all of the advice guy's and thanks Prinz for the example for a more specific and simpler instruction in my EV. 

Lots to experiment with now and fingers crossed I find the right solution to this interesting little problem.

Once the solution has been achieved I'll let everyone know.

Cheers

Pete

[220hotwheels]

Hi Guys

Well once more many thanks to Herman, Phrontistes and Prinz. With your collective help my problem would seem to now be solved, although it is early days yet. I've attached a screenshot of the latest EV which encapsulates each piece of advice you have supplied plus for good measure something that I thought about earlier, i.e. the Active route element.

I'll now introduce this into another section of my EV that had similar problems but that I got round it with 6 different TC, one for each train. Oh the joys of collective minds, especially those with much greater knowledge than mine!!

Cheers

Pete

[220hotwheels]

I spoke too soon. After running the layout for over 30 mins the problem is still there but no where in that part of the EV does it list any vehicle as "empty" in other words in a VD. The fact that one is in a VD still affects the TC instruction, back to the drawing board for a few m ore experiments.

Cheers 

Pete

[Phrontistes]

Hi Pete

Why do you have to switch switches when you use routes? I think it would be easier you set routes depending on the train. It can end in chaos if you activate routes and switch switches at the same time.

Best regards

Phrontistes