Traversing Roundabouts in V7

[220hotwheels]

Hi

Having spent some time getting to grips with the new elements of scenery properties with V7 I have started to try to understand other elements and have begun with setting a simple road journey from point A to point B. Setting the actual route seemed straightforward enough and all seemed to be going well until I encountered a roundabout. As can be seem from the screenshot the route is clearly highlighted but as soon as a vehicle enters the roundabout it immediately heads for the first exit and ignores the given route. 

I have looked through some of the video's posted in an effort to see if I can find a solution but thus far all in vein. For my sins I regret I cannot speak German and whilst it is almost possible to follow the progress on the video the finer detail is somewhat lost as I cannot fully understand either the spoken word or follow too closely the drop down E.M elements.

Anyway if I can solve one problem then it might just provide the solution to ongoing problems with these new routes and so if any of you very knowledgeable members can shed light on the solution to my immediate dilemma I would be very grateful.

Kind regards

Pete

[Goetz]

hello @220hotwheels,
The short answer is:

• routes are for trains.
• Cars use destinations.

Reason being that routes require switch points. They direct a train.
Whereas cars are steered by the driver. He makes the decision, not the road.

This led Neo to changing road traffic in V7 and treating it differently from train routes. Road junctions no longer have switch points inside. Only a bunch of active tracks with multiple connections. And the cars have inbuilt guidance systems. You click on the target icon in the engine properties menu and then on one or more contacts to send your car from A to B.

I hope that helps and I'm not too confusing in my descriptions?
Goetz

Bearbeitet 9. Oktober 2021 von Goetz
picture added

[220hotwheels]

Hi Goetz

Your description is not confusing at all. Many thanks for clarifying this point. Since posting my question I had begun to play around with the little target icon but in conjunction with the route also.  I did eventually get to my destination but I think it was very much by chance rather than good management.

I will now go back to the beginning and do it properly. One point that did keep coming up was an error message saying that there were, "too many junctions", I think that was it. No doubt I have been trying to do too much in one go so hopefully my next attempt will be somewhat more professional and successful.

Many thanks

Pete

[Goetz]

vor 21 Minuten schrieb 220hotwheels:

"too many junctions"

A maximum of 7 junctions is permitted between your car and the next waypoint (i.e. contact). A further 7 are permitted between this and the next waypoint. String up more waypoints where needed.

But I suggest you start with short and simple rides to nearby destinations. Get a feel for it first, before you tackle "the big one"..

[220hotwheels]

A most sensible approach, thank you.

I have one further question if I may. The destination route is shown in green when the vehicle to follow that route is highlighted. When the vehicle is not highlighted the destination route does nor appear. I assume therefore that the initial control of the vehicle is within the E.M. I note that for the trains the orange route only appears when the actual route is chosen in the routes list but there is no such lists for vehicle and their destinations.

Kind regards

Pete

[Goetz]

Hi Pete,

vor 2 Minuten schrieb 220hotwheels:

I assume therefore that the initial control of the vehicle is within the E.M.

Basically, you have two options

1. you can set a round course for your car by stringing up a few waypoints.
   Make sure there's a legit connection from the last waypoint back to the current position, to complete the ring.
2. you can use the E.M. to assign target contacts to passing vehicles at multiple key locations (e.g. crossroads). 

Kind regards
Goetz

[220hotwheels]

Once again many thanks for that. The first option is clear and fully understood. The second might take me a little longer to fully understand but time is a great teacher so I'll sort out the first option as priority one and the second one in the fullness of time.

Kind regards

Pete

[simonjackson1964]

Just to add my 2p worth: I'm putting a list of the next possible waypoints on each track contact (along with the number of targets), then when a road vehicle arrives at a target contact, an event randomly picks one from the list. If there's only one it pics that one, if there's two or more it gets a choice.

[Goetz]

smart approach, @simonjackson1964   

[220hotwheels]

Hi Goetz and @simonjackson1964

Perhaps I am overthinking setting waypoints, or perhaps I am simply missing the point of what constitutes a junction but thus far I have been unable to complete my circular route. 

The aim is to set a route for a bus from point A to B, C and then return to A. The route itself is quite involved and covers some distance.

I can get from A to B to C and begin the return to A having only selected 4 track contacts (waypoints or junctions) I'm not sure. However as soon as I try to select another TC the route is lost and I am told there are too many junctions. What is just a little frustrating is the fact that of the so called 3 remaining "waypoints or junctions" to make up the so called 7 I would only need 2 to get back to my start point.

Having completed the route up to point C I have then selected apply to see if that helps, which I assume saves the route but if I then try to continue from that point I simply delete all of the previous route.

I am sure I would not be alone in saying that the most difficult part of learning this hobby is the lack of a detailed manual. That said I do fully understand the difficulties that producing such a document might entail. I recently bought a new Samsung smartphone, which came without any manual whatsoever. Much of the aspect of said phone are fairly straightforward to follow but to get the best out of it I decided to work through the manual, all 168 pages which I had to download. Having done so I have been able to learn much more about the phone and to remove all that I do not want whilst tweaking aspects that I do want.

Anyway back to my current problem. I hate to take up anymore of your time but I would really appreciate an additional pointer in  order to get me started on redoing much of my road functions. Sort out one round trip route and all others will follow in time. 

Kind regards

Pete

p.s. to Simon, your advice sounds most logical and as Goetz has already commented 'a smart approach'. I might be able to take advantage of it in a month or so !!!

 

 

 

 

[Dad3353]

@220hotwheels...

I can agree about a manual, but, even with one, the approach might better be to do a few small trials, just to see what happens when you do such and such. Before attempting a whole bus route, I think I'd do just a simple hop from here to there. Once that's 'mastered', I'd extend. Sooner or later there'd be a 'hiccup'; that's when I ask for advice, but at least all is well up to that point, and, usually, any replies received are pertinent, allowing continuation (until the next 'hiccup', of course..!).
I haven't done any routes yet, but I can't imagine any long route that couldn't be broken down into 7 junctions, maximum, each. Instead of going from A to B, go from A to A1, then A2, then B. From B, go to B1, then B2, then B3, then back to A. Wouldn't that solve the issue..? I may not have fully understood the problem, of course. 

Ich kann einem Handbuch zustimmen, aber selbst mit einem ist der Ansatz vielleicht besser, ein paar kleine Versuche zu machen, nur um zu sehen, was passiert, wenn Sie das und das tun. Bevor ich eine ganze Buslinie versuche, denke ich, dass ich nur einen einfachen Sprung von hier nach dort machen würde. Sobald das "gemeistert" ist, würde ich erweitern. Früher oder später würde es einen „Schluckauf“ geben; dann frage ich um Rat, aber bis dahin ist zumindest alles in Ordnung, und normalerweise sind alle eingegangenen Antworten relevant und ermöglichen eine Fortsetzung (bis zum nächsten 'Schluckauf' natürlich...!).
Ich habe noch keine Routen gemacht, aber ich kann mir keine lange Route vorstellen, die nicht in maximal 7 Abzweigungen unterteilt werden könnte. Anstatt von A nach B zu gehen, gehen Sie von A nach A1, dann A2, dann B. Von B, gehen Sie zu B1, dann B2, dann B3, dann zurück zu A. Würde das nicht das Problem lösen? Ich habe das Problem natürlich nicht ganz verstanden.

[Goetz]

Hello Pete,

vor 30 Minuten schrieb 220hotwheels:

what constitutes a junction

any fork in the road does, either when the path splits or when paths come together.

A road crossing typically has 2 junctions for every possible path through:

• One leads into the crossing, the other one goes out.
• The former splits paths, the latter joins them.

And you don't have to complete the ring.
When the car has a legit path from the last waypoint to it's current position, it will automatically follow the same path again. And again ...

KInd regards
Goetz

[220hotwheels]

Brilliant. Many thanks for that. The drawing board awaits once again. The lack of a detailed manual is more than made up by you guidance, I just don't like to bother you or other members if I can avoid it.

Many thanks

Pete

[220hotwheels]

Hi Douglas

You should know me by now!! "Two feet into the pond Pete" is my nickname. I have always taken the view that the quickest way to learn anything is to jump in at the deep end, make all the mistakes imaginable and as you start to put them right then the solution sinks in quicker. Perhaps it is not the most scientific way, it certainly isn't the best use of time but then I have plenty of the latter. I will now move forward with the advice from Goetz and hope that I get my bus to completing it's round trip without too many disgruntled passengers!!! Yes I have included passengers in the bus this time, the bus tickets are much cheaper than those for the train!!

kinr regards

Pete

[simonjackson1964]

Again, 2p worth: If the vehicle is always to follow the same path, why not put a list of waypoints on the vehicle, along with a counter, then you have an event "When vehicle X reaches it's target, add one to the counter, set the target to Way-point-list[counter]"

And if you put a keyword on the vehicle you can then reuse the same event by saying "When a vehicle with keyword X..."

[edit to add]

You will also need a number to hold the number of waypoints in the list, and add a condition, "If counter > number-of-waypoints, counter = 1" (or 0 depending on if you do it before or after...)

Bearbeitet 10. Oktober 2021 von simonjackson1964

[220hotwheels]

Hi Simon and @Goetz

Thanks for the additional information. It will prove to be most useful when I eventually get to that point. For now I continue with my struggle to solve the basics.

Having spent all of last night working diligently through the route for my bus I did find that some of the road sections had nor converted over properly from V6 to V7 and so with the help of a spreadsheet I was able to check each section, methodically, and correct those that were not quite right. Having done so I was able to set a complete route from start to finish. However as there is a roundabout involved I found that the bus would negotiate the roundabout OK on it's way out but on it's return it got confused as to just which way to go. My solution was to set the route in two halves. A route out and a route back. In order to set the second part I found it necessary to delete the last waypoint for out route. With the return route set I waited for the bus to return to it's start point, which it did and stopped in the bus station for it's allotted time as per the E.M. All once again seemed fine. The bus set off once more on it's journey but as soon as it encountered the first junction, the one back into the bus station, it simply selected that route and returned. I have included screenshots that I hope will help to explain this. I have looked at the junction itself and it is set at '0' which should send the bus nicely on it's way.

I first encountered this problem whilst the return route was highlighted in green and therefore deleted the final waypoint for that section, the stop contact in the bust station.

Clearly there is something else that I need to do in order to complete and secure this route but at present I cannot figure it out. 

Any thoughts please.

Kind regards

Pete

[220hotwheels]

Good morning to both Goetz and Simon

Having slept on the above problem I concluded that I should remove the roundabout and replace it with a crossroads in an effort to see if that solved the problem of not being able to produce a complete round trip route that would provide a trouble free route for my bus. 

It has worked, eureka, and whilst that problem is solved it still begs the question why does the roundabout cause this issue? A problem for another day I think.

Pete