220hotwheels

Hi I wonder if anyone can point me in the right direction of how to have different vehicles travelling on the same road, in the same direction but that they will stop or slow down when the one in front does so. I am aware that there are invisible spacers that will do this, to a point, but I am trying to achieve closer to reality than simply having one follow another like a robot. Ultimately I hope to be able to create a situation where one vehicle can join a road, follow other vehicles but then turn off when it's particular program dictates so that it can then follow a different designated route. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Pete

Hi Tom It's been a long time since we last spoke. I hope you are well and not having problems with the dredded Coronavirus. Life here in the UK is a bit challenging but then I have 3 D Train Studio to keep me busy. That said I have spent around 1200 hours on the latest layout. I am learning plenty as I go and keep going back to modify earlier efforts when I find a more professional approach to a problem. All was going well until about four hours ago when, whilst doing a routine back up I got an error message telling me that something had gone wrong and to restart the program. No matter what I do I cannot get this particular layout back. I have sent a message back via the error message itself but am unable to send a copy of the layout backup as it is not in mbp format. The file is quite large, 4510 but not as big as the Fairmont one. I have asked if there is anyway that I can send them an email with the file as an attachment but have so far heard nothing. Have you encountered this problem yourself before and if so how did you get round it. It all started when I was modifying some virtual track for pedestrians. I decided that I didn't need two particular junctions and so removed them. Having done so I backed up and in doing so got this error message. I know the problem is not with the actual program because Fairmont will load OK. Any advice that will point me in the right direction would be greatly appreciated. Cheers Pete

Hi Tom I do already run two computers in order to compare certain aspects as I go. I would dearly love not to get involved with Lua and can normally find my way around the graphic EM but this time I was totally stumped as to how to achieve the "Multiple conditions bit in the first line of the Road Traffic events 'Track contact is triggered'. I do plan to redo this part of the EV over and over until I get it right. In the second event, 'Object variable is changed' the only thing that was missing was the word 'else' on the penultimate line so how I would have sorted that in the graphics EM I am not too sure. Over the next couple of days I will see if I can apply, from memory, all that I have now learnt into a simple crossings barrier function on part of my current layout, a simple single road in and out, around a single track and see how that pans out. I have already found out that both positioning of TC's and acceleration and deceleration of vehicles is critical too especially when attempting tricky maneuvers both into and out of depot's, but must confess that I have not yet tried any of this with more than one vehicle following another. I have noted that there are invisible spacers that can be used but then that will surely mean that all vehicles follow one another at the same distance all the time which isn't very realistic and never happens on any of the roads around my home area!!!! Once again thanks for your advice, I am most grateful. Cheers Pete

Hi Tom After much deliberation I still could not figure out how to achieve the necessary amendments to the two lines in the "Road Traffic" section. As a last resort I converted both your example and mine to Lua script and compared them. As a result I have been able to sort the problem and I think the demo is now running fine. Clearly I need to give more thought as to how to sort matters out without having to revert to Lua script. Cheers Pete Crossing barriers test track.mbp

Hi Tom I found time this evening to play with the demo layout. I decided that for the purpose of learning I should try to emulate your demo so that I could fully understand the various aspects. I believe I have made progress as the trains close and open the barriers. The cars too will stop at the barriers but do so whether they are up or down. I wonder whether this might be because under events "Road Traffic" "Track contact is triggered" I seem unable to acquire the first event "Multiple conditions", this I thought came up automatically when multiple conditions were present as I cannot see a separate heading under "which actions should be performed". What am I overlooking please. Cheers Pete Crossing barriers test track.mbp

Hi Tom Will do. I hope to make a start on sorting it out later today. If all goes well then I might get it finished either today or tomorrow depending how many family interruptions I get!! Cheers Pete

Hi Tom Once again many thanks for your advice. I have briefly looked through it all and printed it off so that I can constantly refer back to it. My initial thought was that of confusion but like most things the more you concentrate on it the clearer it becomes, or at least I hope it will. You are also so right in that it is only by doing things yourself does it totally sink in so the back to the drawing board and start from scratch as a final measure is definitely the best way. Once I begin my start from scratch program would a track contact with deferred timing do a similar job to that undertaken by the track section at the crossing barrier or must I alter all of my track sections where crossings are involved. Cheers Pete

Hi Tom As most of the roads in the new layout are only single roads I thought it would be a simple task to adopt your EV for my purposes. I believe I have translated everything correctly but cannot get the barriers to operate using 01 Schlieben. If I change to 02 Offrien then the barrier will close but then open and close again instead of just opening. I assume the problem is to do with the instruction under the variable Belegung but having tried one or two alternatives it seemed to make no difference. The bus on the other hand will stop whether the barrier is up or down but will not start again in any event. Clearly there is something that I am not doing right but I cannot see what it is. Help please!!! Crossing barriers test track.mbp

Hi Tom Many thanks for that. From a brief glance through the EV it would seem that I was not far off the mark at times but just got certain bits mixed up so then went down numerous other paths. If Mr Google and I get a bit lost with any translation might I impose on you yet again for help with that? Cheers Pete

Hi Tom I hope you are well, that you enjoyed your Christmas and are now ready to fully embrace 2020. May I take this opportunity to wish you all the very best for this New Year. Since our last contact I took the decision to follow your advice and put Fairmont well and truly on hold pending quite radical alterations once I have learnt more. To that end I started a new layout, much smaller by comparison, so that I could concentrate on more interactive operations in order to try to understand EV management more fully. As a result of this I now have greater control of trains and loading and unloading of waggons so that the overall operation tells more of a story rather than them simply going around a circuit. I have also got to grips with trucks and trailers so that they too arrive at depots, load or unload with fork trucks, cranes etc and depot doors and gates operating at the correct time to facilitate arrivals and departures. All in all I am quite pleased with my progress so far which I have to say is largely down to your guidance and my sheer determination to master as much as possible. Having said that I am under no illusion that I am still at a pretty basic stage, especially after reading some of the posts and comments on the forum. Speaking of which I did take a look at your suggested post regarding crossing barriers and have tried so many variations to see if I can understand the principle for a smooth operation. I have to admit that to date I have failed miserably. Getting the train to close and open the barriers is simple enough. Getting the vehicle to stop at the barrier is simple enough but getting it to stop only when the barrier is down is proving more difficult. Once the barrier is down and the vehicle has stopped then getting it to start again is also not difficult by using the track contact to open the barrier and start the vehicle. I would, once again, be very grateful if you could point me in the right direction, in simple terms, as to how I could achieve this operation. My thinking has been to try to find the right combination of instructions to achieve what is a simple operation, ie when the road contact is triggered stop the vehicle only if the barrier is down and to carry on if the barrier is up. In trying to achieve this I started by following your examples for barrier operation and then tried to alter them to meet my requirement but so far nothing has worked. This time I setup a simple test track and have attach this so that you can consider my feeble attempts to solve the problem. I have also downloaded instruction for crossing control posted last August, see below, but this is too advanced for me at the moment. 1. A train approaches the level crossing and passes the (green) track contact for closing the barrier: Increase the counter for the level crossing occupancy (variable "train occupancy") by 1 by trains. 2. If the level crossing is "free" from cars (variable "car occupancy" = 0), the protection signal opens. If the protection signal before the level crossing remains closed (variable "car occupancy"> 0), the train must stop in front of it. 3. Occupancy variable "Train occupancy" is increased from 0 to 1: Switch traffic lights for the cars at the level crossing to "Red" and prevent other cars from crossing the stop lines in front of the barriers (stop cars). However, the barriers cannot be closed while there are still cars in the level crossing area. 4. Car leaves level crossing (recognized by leaving the black track contact behind the level crossing): Reduce the counter for the level crossing by cars (variable "car allocation") by 1. 5. Occupancy variable " Car occupancy" is reduced from 1 to 0: Close barriers (there are now no cars in the level crossing area). 6. Closing of the barriers completed: opening of the respective protection signal when a train is waiting to be opened (i.e. is in front of the signal or is approaching). Start the stopping train or let the approaching train pass. 7. Train has passed a protection signal in front of the level crossing: close the protection signal. 8. Train leaves level crossing (identified by leaving the green track contact behind the level crossing): Reduce the counter for the level crossing occupancy by trains (variable "Train allocation") by 1. 9. Occupancy variable "Train occupancy" is reduced from 1 to 0: Open the railroad gates. 10. Opening of the barrier has been completed: switch off the red traffic lights, remove the blocking of the cars at the stop lines, and let the cars in front start driving. 11. Cars crossing the level crossing enter the black track contact between the stop line and the barrier: Increase the counter for the level crossing occupancy (variable "car occupancy") by cars I would therefore very much appreciate your further guidance please. Kind regards Pete Crossing barriers test track.mbp

Hi Tom Thanks for that. My thinking for Lockington Main is to present me with as many different scenarios to solve that may appear in Fairmont. Different tracks, different crossings and so on but without any clutter. As I solve one problem I can then introduce another whilst having to retain the overall operation capability. So onwards and upward with the crossing problem. I've copied and translated the crossing demo shown in the posts under demo and will look to apply that logic to my problem. As for Auto Updates. I already have that "ticked" permanently so assume I will always have the latest available. Cheers Pete

Hi Tom Apologies for bothering you again, if I become a nuisance then please let me know. I would appreciate you taking a look at my efforts with both train and barrier control and pointing out the error of my ways, in particular with the crossing barrier control which I have really struggled to come to term with. The only way that I have been able to get the vehicles to start again once stopped is by introducing a time delay. This isn't perfect by any stretch of the imagination because if two trains trip the barrier at the same time then my vehicle simply ignores the barrier instruction and ends up going through the trains. I've tried so many variations, clearly not the right ones, to try to achieve perfection but have now hit the proverbial brick wall and need further guidance. Kindest regards Pete Lockington Main.mbp

Hi Tom Oops. Just goes to show how much I need to learn. I think the phrase that springs to mind is, 'I wondered what that section did'. In my ignorance I simply thought that it allowed the choice of either route 'O', route 1 or route 2, not that it had any bearing on the makeup of each road section. Now that I know I can add further revision work to my schedule. As they say a day without learning is a day lost. With 3D Train Studio there are certainly no days lost!! I will also look at the use of the virtual road. Now that you have pointed this out it makes perfect sense. This particular phrase seems to be a normal one for me now but it is so appropriate. "Many thanks once again". Cheers Pete

Hi Tom I have followed your advice to simplify both rail and road tracks and get rid of flexibend elements as you know in the Fairmont layout. Whilst I have not finished this yet I have noticed that no vehicle seems to want to run on any road that has been altered in this way. I came across this phenomena whilst playing around with my demo track, Lockington, in trying to sort out how to stop a vehicle at a crossing only when the barrier is down. I'm not quite there yet but getting closer. I have therefore had to use flexibend roads to solve this problem on that particular layout. Clearly there is no doubt something that I am overlooking but so far I cannot figure out what it is. On the demo layout I have now got 8 trains running on four different tracks with 8 different crossing barriers and a control mechanism in place to ensure none run into one another. Still a bit of fine tuning to undertake but I'm getting there. After that I plan to introduce alternative tracks to feed into others so that I can try to get to grips with different timings. Without your guidance I would still be floundering in the "dark ages", so to speak so once again many thanks for all your guidance. Cheers Pete

Thanks Tom. More ideas to play about with. This is definitely my best way to learn, in at the deep but with the help of an expert to keep me on the straight and narrow. Many thanks once again Cheers Pete

Hi Tom Your advice, as always, is invaluable. It's taken me a while to digest it all but it does make a lot of sense. In trying to get both sets of points working properly in line with your setting in the Fairmont layout it was necessary to take some of my efforts back to basics and yes by doing so I realised where I had gone wrong initially and duplicated the operation between barriers 1 and 2. I've now got both barriers working properly as each train on their respective tracks approach and leave so progress has been made. So that I am sure I have the process right I will now look to set up a similar situation on the opposite side of the oval with a different station and set of crossings. Fingers crossed that I don't foul up again but as the saying goes, 'practice makes perfect' Thanks again Tom. My folder with all of your advice grows weekly. By the time I become proficient at this hobby I will be able to write a book with all of your advice. Royalties to be shared 50/50 !!! Cheers Pete

Hi Timba Many thanks for that. I had assumed that as I had set the "Trains Crossing" variable to > than 0 then selecting + 1 and - 1 for the actual operation would work fine but having selected = to 1 and = to 0 in each of the variables for open and close barriers respectively they do now close and open so many thanks for that. Very much appreciated. Kind regards Pete

Hi Tom As you suggested I have set up a demo layout Lockington. Size wise I appreciate that it is quite large again but my intention initially is to set up three stations along the outer track so that I can experiment with multi trains, barriers, speeds etc. Once I have got to grips with that I can then move on by setting up an inner two tracks to learn about points, crossings etc. At least that's the plan. I thought all was going well following your examples and whilst the two trains seem to run reasonably I cannot for the life of me get the crossings to operate unless I place an instruction line in the EM for each track, which is not how you have sorted it's operation in Fairmont. I have compared your instructions and mine over and over and cannot see just where I am going wrong. Could I therefore trouble you once more to point out the errors of my ways please. Cheers Pete Lockington demo.mbp

Hi Tom Thanks for that. It should eliminate my error from before and stop my poor firemen from over exercising!! Cheers Pete

Hi Tom I believe I might have covered part of the above in an earlier reply but I too am using Windows 10 professional on both of my machines. Both have Intel i7 processors, the laptop one is less than a year old with 16Gb Ram and the desktop is only 4 months old running 48GB Ram so I don't find it too slow to load Fairmont. The laptop takes around 45 seconds and the desktop about 30 seconds. Where I have to be careful is when I am moving quickly around the layout to make sure that I don't catch something that I shouldn't. Cheers Pete

Hi Guys I've had some more time to go through your earlier advice together with the work that Tom has done for me in setting me on the right path. It is now so clear that my approach has been more than just a little off the mark. Having taken your advice Andy and looked at the list of items used I was staggered by the amount of repetition. That said when I start to trim I will need to be careful not to diminish the overall effect that I had always wanted to create, When all is said and done elements such as trees provide an extremely important dimension in trying for near realism. In the same way telegraph poles, street lights etc have all yet to be added. I've just read your recent advice Goetz and have no imminent intentions to complicate matters by introducing these into the demo layout EM at present. Rest assured that I plan to keep it all very simple and get to grips with the basics as you outlined in your example. Hi Tom. I've also had the time to take a closer look at your revised EM for tracks 3 & 4, they are brilliant and show me just how wrong my approach has been. I will follow your advice to keep Fairmont principally for the landscaping aspect for now which will encapsulate a thinning of certain elements as well as additional work on the remaining tracks and roads. My demo layout, currently two ovals providing two parallel tracks is called Lockington. When I am happy that I have got to grips with all of the advice given I will send it to you for further comment if that is OK with you. Cheers Pete

Hi Guys I hope you can all pick up this reply rather than me thanking each of you separately. I have briefly read through each of your suggestions and will print them off for future reference. What you advise makes absolute sense. All I have to do now is get my head round it all over the next few weeks. I have already set up a test layout and will add some extra details such as crossings etc so that I can fully get to grips with the various aspects of EM. I also take your point Andy about reducing the polygon aspect. I didn't really consider this much before trying simply to achieve a realistic looking layout from the aesthetics point of view. Over time I will trim things down. Tom has already given me invaluable guidance on that front the result of which has reduced the overall file size down from around 3GB to 2.7, 2.8GB and I still have quite a lot of track and roads to streamline so am hopeful that I will get back to 2.6GB in the future. So Tom, Goetz and Andy I cannot thank you enough for your guidance. With luck in another years time I might just have a fully working layout. Cheers Pete

Many thanks for that Tom. I had obviously noticed said crossings problem and knew that it need to be addressed at some point as indeed have numerous other elements but I was working on the principal of "all in good time" as my knowledge and understanding grew. That at least is my excuse!! Cheers Pete

Hi Andy Glad you like the layout. As you can see from some of the other posts the general advice is pretty much the same so I plan to finally follow said advice and set up a simple test layout to play around with EM. Cheers Pete

Hi Tom It would seem that everyone has pretty much the same advice. Lose the Fairmont layout for now and set up a simple track layout for the purpose of getting to grips with EM. This I will now do. The biggest challenge in getting to grips with this problem, for me anyway, is understanding how things work. It's easy to work through the various screens and select different elements to see what they do but without fully understanding some of the more basic principals of the loco management operation you just keep fumbling in the dark so to speak. I have gone through the online manual many times and this just gets me more confused. Perhaps it's the translation that does not help which is why I opted for the "jump in with two feet" approach. Anyway your advice to date has been invaluable so many thanks for that. Cheers Pete