Junction issue

[220hotwheels]

Hi to all my fellow members

I wonder if anyone can give me a valid reason why the vehicle exiting onto this junction will not follow the route designated for said vehicle but simply takes the junction route to the opposite carriageway. Clearly I can solve this issue buy constructing my own junction but should this be necessary?

Kind regards

Pete

[gmd]

Hi Pete,

You didn't get an answer yet, and to be honest, I do not quite understand what you are actually asking ?
The picture does not help me either. Maybe you can elaborate a bit and you may get some answers.
Regards
gmd

[220hotwheels]

2 hours ago, gmd said:

Hi Pete,

You didn't get an answer yet, and to be honest, I do not quite understand what you are actually asking ?
The picture does not help me either. Maybe you can elaborate a bit and you may get some answers.
Regards
gmd

Hi gmd

Typical of me, I know what I am trying to say but don't explain it properly for others to understand.

Basically the layout that I am working on is designed with right hand drive vehicles. Setting the route for all thus far has been no problem. However I now have to set the route for a Bentley Cabrio to leave the owners property and head into town to visit a friend in her apartment. So far so good. The junction into the property is a standard single lane junction as per the initial screenshot. The issue that I had was that despite setting the route to depart through the gates, do a quick round trip (for experimental purposes only) and then return to the property. However I could not get the Bentley to follow the route set, it simply departed heading across the road and onto the opposite side as if it were a left hand drive vehicle. 

Since posting my question Herman has come back to me with a solution which works fine, see attached small demo layout, but in trying to apply this to my actual layout it is not working as I had hoped. In fact the Bentley seems to have a mind of it's own and will follow the set route for so long and then it simply goes it's own sweet way and the set route is lost. Other vehicles follow a similar route without issue.

To try to explain the problem I have made a short demo. A) uses Herman's method and works perfectly with no rear twitch when arriving back. B) Is the initial standard junction that has given me so many headaches. C) Is my solution to the problem with B but it produces rear end twitch on return. D) Is a modification of C with much reduced rear end twitch.

The solution would seem to be to follow the advice offered by Herman and to split the route into sections. My attempt at this has so far been a bit unpredictable which would suggest that I am doing something wrong. Having set the routes as A to B, B to C, C to D I find the route disappears once the Bentley enters C to D. It also ignores traffic lights set at the end of B to C. Clearly I have much more work to do in locating the source of the problem.

Many thanks for your interest in this issue.

Kind regards

Pete

Test layout single lane junction.mbp

[SualokinK]

Hi Pete,

Please take a look at variation E.

Best regards
SualokinK

Test layout single lane junction 1.mbp

[Goetz]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb 220hotwheels:

it produces rear end twitch

Hello Pete,
these twitches happen when no target is assigned.
You never assign a target for the return route, leaving it to chance which way the Bentley goes when it comes back.

Also, switches and targets don't mix well.
I replaced the switch in your virtual track loop with two normal track pieces, assigned a destination for each step of the way and everything runs like clockwork:

Test layout single lane junction G.mbp

 

A second variation with fewer (hence the F ) contacts:

Test layout single lane junction F.mbp

 

Kind regards
Goetz

Bearbeitet vor 21 Stunden von Goetz
second example added

[220hotwheels]

1 hour ago, SualokinK said:

Hi Pete,

Please take a look at variation E.

Best regards
SualokinK

Test layout single lane junction 1.mbp 23.96 kB · 4 downloads

Hi Sualokink

Many thanks for your solution. As you have seen it follows very closely the solutions offered by Goetz and in all 3 cases the car stops on exit well before a car would actually stop under the same circumstances. This is perhaps why I have had so much trouble, I have tried to create as close to reality as possible with the car stopping right at the point where it would in real life. That said I do seem to have got round that to a point, the point at which the route is set seems critical in ensuring the car remains on the left hand side of the road on exit. Another, self inflicted problem is the space in which I am able to set start and end route points. At the moment the car pulls into the drive and heads for the garage on the right. After a short stop it then reverses out, stops before moving forward, opening the gates and then setting the exit route. It stops at the junction with the road before moving off. This now works fine but trying to set the complete route is proving a nightmare. Clearly my understanding of what is required is still not quite there. Herman pointed me in the right direction by using the "set target" element of EV and whilst I have been able to get so far with the route using this method I find that for some unexplained reason the route will suddenly simply disappear. More investigation is required.

Anyway once again many thanks for your solution.

Best regards

Pete

[220hotwheels]

1 hour ago, Goetz said:

Hello Pete,
these twitches happen when no target is assigned.
You never assign a target for the return route, leaving it to chance which way the Bentley goes when it comes back.

Also, switches and targets don't mix well.
I replaced the switch in your virtual track loop with two normal track pieces, assigned a destination for each step of the way and everything runs like clockwork:

Test layout single lane junction G.mbp 9.11 kB · 1 download

 

A second variation with fewer (hence the F ) contacts:

Test layout single lane junction F.mbp 11 kB · 0 downloads

 

Kind regards
Goetz

Hi Goetz

Thank you so much for your solutions. As I'm sure you have already noticed Sualokink has also offered a similar solution and my reply to him is perhaps self explanatory.

It never ceases to amaze me just how complex elements of MBS are. Having set the route in 4 parts following the advice from Herman I have found that sometimes it will work OK and on other occasions the section of route set is replaced by a route set for another vehicle. I am wondering if it might be prudent to remove the Bentley Cabrio and replace it with a completely new on to see if this might solve the confusion with the other routes.

Anyway, much head scratching is now the order of the day in the hope that those little grey cells will stop dancing about and all line up with the correct, final, solution.

Once again many thanks for your help.

Kind regards

Pete

[Goetz]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb 220hotwheels:

I am wondering if it might be prudent to remove the Bentley Cabrio and replace it

It has nothing to do with the Bentley in particular (nor with stopping the car at a more realistic position than I did in my lazy layout).

We'd love to help you identify the true cause of your predicament. Alas ... without access to your troubled layout, that's a tad difficult.

Kind regards
Goetz

[SualokinK]

Hi Pete,

Here is the E variant again.

Now the Bentley drives out of the exit ramp once to the right and once to the left and also stops further into the road.

Maybe it will help and, as @Goetz already wrote, it has nothing to do with the Bentley, but depends on the position of the contacts.
Because @Goetz has offered his help, I will withdraw. It is the better plant manufacturer.

Best regards

SualokinK

Test layout single lane junction E.mbp

 

[Goetz]

Gerade eben schrieb SualokinK:

I will withdraw.

Why? Your help is as much appreciated as mine, I'm sure!

[220hotwheels]

1 minute ago, SualokinK said:

Hi Pete,

Here is the E variant again.

Now the Bentley drives out of the exit ramp once to the right and once to the left and also stops further into the road.

Maybe it will help and, as Goetz already wrote, it has nothing to do with the Bentley, but depends on the position of the contacts.
Because Goetz has offered his help, I will withdraw. It is the better plant manufacturer.

Best regards

SualokinK

Test layout single lane junction E.mbp 8.72 kB · 0 downloads

 

 

19 minutes ago, Goetz said:

It has nothing to do with the Bentley in particular (nor with stopping the car at a more realistic position than I did in my lazy layout).

We'd love to help you identify the true cause of your predicament. Alas ... without access to your troubled layout, that's a tad difficult.

Kind regards
Goetz

Hi Goetz

I do very much appreciate your offer of help. I do think I am beginning to overthink this problem. I have attached the layout along with the outward route shown. When I did a quick run through the Bentley failed to stop at the second junction as well as the traffic lights, but I only went that far before stopping. To start things off just set the speed for the Bentley to -8kph. Apologies for such an incomplete layout, it is very much a work in progress with alterations and improvements taking place all of the time.

Kind regards

Pete

A layout inspired by York station.mbp

[Goetz]

Incomplete or not, Pete ... That is one impressive layout 
No apologies needed!

[Goetz]

Hello @220hotwheels,

here is one situation which causes the Bentley to lose it's route:

When any vehicle enters the contact at the hotel, you assign DC-Low Wood entry gate as the Bentley's new target. But the Bentley is nowhere near this hotel. From it's current location, the target is out of reach for the Bentley. And when you assign an impossible target, the set route is lost.

 

unrelated:
The event TC4a-additional crossing control produces an error message and pauses the layout when the event trace window is open. I haven't figured out yet what that error is about.

Kind regards
Goetz

[Herman]

1 hour ago, 220hotwheels said:

quick run through the Bentley failed to stop at the second junction

Hello Pete, look at the track contact. When stopping the bentley hits this next track contact.
But it is an acceleration contact to 25 km/h , so the Bentley immediately goes on. I placed the second TrCt a bit further.

Correction not the case here because the deceleration of your Bently is high enough. The real cause is that you took the wrong name of the TC. See further.
 

 

Kind regards, Herman

 

Bearbeitet vor 18 Stunden von Herman
correction

[Goetz]

The event TC4a-additional crossing control produces an error message, because you attempt to subtract 1 from what is actually a keyword.

[Herman]

Hello Pete, 

1 hour ago, 220hotwheels said:

quick run through the Bentley failed to stop at the second junction

There is something about your code to stop the Bentley there.  Names!

I simplified the code to this, and it works. Try to work with a trigger if every car may  stop there for a while. 
Otherwhise you can use a condition as in the previous junction and explecitely say it must be the Bentley.  Can you try something out ?  Hope we helped you a bit further.

Kind regards, Herman

Bearbeitet vor 18 Stunden von Herman
typo

[220hotwheels]

54 minutes ago, Herman said:

Hello Pete, look at the track contact. When stopping the bentley hits this next track contact.
But it is an acceleration contact to 25 km/h , so the Bentley immediately goes on. I placed the second TrCt a bit further.

Correction not the case here because the deceleration of your Bently is high enough. The real cause is that you took the wrong name of the TC. See further.
 

 

Kind regards, Herman

 

Thanks Herman, yep I found that too by going back over everything.

Kind regards

Pete

1 hour ago, Goetz said:

Hello 220hotwheels,

here is one situation which causes the Bentley to lose it's route:

When any vehicle enters the contact at the hotel, you assign DC-Low Wood entry gate as the Bentley's new target. But the Bentley is nowhere near this hotel. From it's current location, the target is out of reach for the Bentley. And when you assign an impossible target, the set route is lost.

 

unrelated:
The event TC4a-additional crossing control produces an error message and pauses the layout when the event trace window is open. I haven't figured out yet what that error is about.

Kind regards
Goetz

Thank you very much Goetz. That was meant to be the start point for the return of the Bentley to Low Wood but I will remove it for now and rethink at a later date. I am also looking into the event TC4a-additional crossing control.

Kind regards

Pete

[220hotwheels]

1 hour ago, Goetz said:

Incomplete or not, Pete ... That is one impressive layout 
No apologies needed!

Thanks Goetz. My trouble is that I tend to get side tracked, have a great idea and then set about implementing it, not always to the best effect.

Pete

[220hotwheels]

1 hour ago, Goetz said:

The event TC4a-additional crossing control produces an error message, because you attempt to subtract 1 from what is actually a keyword.

Having looked into this I can see my mistake, it should be a number and not a keyword. The sole purpose for this TC is to stop vehicles entering the level crossing if the way ahead is not clear, i.e. if the traffic light 'A' Nunthorpe Road is red. I've now made the correction.

Many thanks

Pete

[220hotwheels]

2 minutes ago, 220hotwheels said:

Having looked into this I can see my mistake, it should be a number and not a keyword. The sole purpose for this TC is to stop vehicles entering the level crossing if the way ahead is not clear, i.e. if the traffic light 'A' Nunthorpe Road is red. I've now made the correction.

Many thanks

Pete

Hi Goetz

I have also noticed that due to so much meddling with the Bentley I seem to have a train or two out of position. This has now been corrected. You will also no doubt have numerous large question marks for both 2 trains, their carriages and a couple of cars. If this is any issue I can supply the appropriate file to correct this anomaly. These are The Flying Scotsman, The Mallard, and 2 BMW cars.

Kind regards

Pete 

[Goetz]

Don't worry, the question marks are not an issue for me at the moment, Pete.
I enjoyed seeing your layout even with a few bits missing. It brought back fond memories of my years in the UK.

Cheers
Goetz