V6 -->>V7 or V8 shift of objects

[Herman]

Hello, I'm still testing my layouts, I noticed in the same layout : 
V6 

V7/V8

Regards, Herman

[Goetz]

Hello @Herman

From V 6 to V7, the hole for a tunnel may shift by half a cell.
The reason is in the method for creating this hole. It was changed with the new and improved surface resolution.

Does that match your observation?
Goetz

[Herman]

4 minutes ago, Goetz said:

Does that match your observation?

Yes Götz, it is the hole indeed. When upgrading to V7 I kept the V6 in an separated library, and did mostly test to learn new functions, not if my previous layouts are still working. Probably it was mentioned in the BetaV7 discussion and I missed it then. 
Thank you Götz for the explanation. 
Greetings, Herman

Bearbeitet 28. Oktober 2022 von Herman

[Herman]

Hello. Just to discuss. I work with V6-V7-V8 independent from each other. The holes are ok in V6, not in V7. So if I want to correct that I had to do it in V7 or higher. Because it is the same layout in both versions , I best publish it in V7 under the same ID.  
In the past I did publish sometimes the same layouts under the same ID in V6 and V7. ( they look the same, only the functions are changed, example a bus stop with switches in V6 and with targets in V7).

Yesterday I wanted to change a V6 version for a little error --> but there came an error that I cannot publish it because the same ID nr is already in an higher version. As I said in the beginning, only to discuss or warn others, of course I can save the V6 version under another ID and publish that layout.
But back to the little errors with the holes. That's not really what I want to do, because in those cases, the difference is so minimal. 

Maybe a wish. Make it possible to republish a layout from a previous version under the same ID, even if there is the same ID published in an higher version ?

Hallo. Nur um zu diskutieren. Ich arbeite mit V6-V7-V8 unabhängig voneinander. Die Löcher sind in V6 in Ordnung, in V7 nicht. Wenn ich das also korrigieren will, muss ich es in V7 oder höher machen. Da es in beiden Versionen das gleiche Layout ist, veröffentliche ich es am besten in V7 unter der gleichen ID.  
In der Vergangenheit habe ich manchmal die gleichen Layouts unter der gleichen ID in V6 und V7 veröffentlicht (sie sehen gleich aus, nur die Funktionen sind geändert, z.B. eine Bushaltestelle mit Weichen in V6 und mit Zielen in V7).

Gestern wollte ich eine V6 Version wegen eines kleinen Fehlers ändern --> aber es kam die Fehlermeldung, dass ich sie nicht veröffentlichen kann, weil die gleiche ID nr schon in einer höheren Version ist. Wie ich am Anfang sagte, nur um zu diskutieren oder andere zu warnen, kann ich natürlich die V6 Version unter einer anderen ID speichern und dieses Layout veröffentlichen.
Aber zurück zu den kleinen Fehlern mit den Löchern. Das ist nicht wirklich das, was ich tun wollte, denn in diesen Fällen ist der Unterschied so minimal. 

Vielleicht ein Wunsch. Die Möglichkeit, ein Layout aus einer früheren Version unter der gleichen ID erneut zu veröffentlichen, auch wenn die gleiche ID in einer höheren Version veröffentlicht wurde?

Kind regards. Mit besten Grüßen. Herman.

Bearbeitet 29. Oktober 2022 von Herman
Wish / Wunsch

[hmclay]

I'm having trouble with Items moving when opening up the layout , particularly people/things attached to a moving object. What might cause that? My suspicion is automatic height or automatic snapping being used incorrectly.

Also of concern is undo doesn't always work, either the Ctrl-Z of the edit command. Very inconvenient for me ... I need it alot !!!!!

[Herman]

Sorry @hmclay I think the members need more specific information what goes wrong to answer this. 
Tut mir leid, @hmclay, aber ich denke, die Mitglieder brauchen genauere Informationen darüber, was schief läuft, um diese Frage zu beantworten.

Kind regards Herman

Bearbeitet 19. November 2022 von Herman

[simonjackson1964]

On 11/19/2022 at 1:10 AM, hmclay said:

Also of concern is undo doesn't always work, either the Ctrl-Z of the edit command. Very inconvenient for me ... I need it alot !!!!!

I think there might be a physical (i.e. hard-coded) limit on the number of actions you can undo? I've noticed tat the undo button grays out after a certain number of clicks.

There is an easy and obvious work-around - the Save button. Rule one for computers: When you have doe more than you want to do again, save! Rule two: Before doing a major edit that you might want to undo, save! In fact it's advisable to save as a different file name periodically so that you have a checkpoint to go back to if it all goes horribly wrong and you save by accident!

[Goetz]

vor 20 Minuten schrieb simonjackson1964:

I've noticed tat the undo button grays out after a certain number of clicks.

Not after a certain number of clicks, Simon.
But after certain actions.
When a vehicle leaves a depot, the undo buffer gets cleared. 

Even a limited number of undo steps still allows for the last actions to be taken back.
Every new action pushes the oldest one off the stack. Not more.

[Goetz]

However,
what hmclay states is that the shortcut ctrl+z doesn't work at times.
And that his objects are found in wrong places when he loads an old layout.

Both shouldn't happen and doesn't happen here.

Unfortunately, his meager description holds no information to the cause of his predicament.
We'd need to watch him do things to determine what's going wrong for him and why.

[hmclay]

I'll try to explain a case that happens frequently.

1.) Normally I have the layout running, watching and looking for anything needing attention.

2.) Without stopping (normally) , I click on an item I may want to move/edit. I accidentally click the wrong item, and move it .... then can't just hit undo ... even once.

  Do I need to pause the program first ? ... I'll experiment.

3.) I do a lot of editing ... ground, moving, adding, correcting (still learning.  I get done and save the work ( I must have 3 dozen versions or more). The next session, I open the program, and the figures in the trucks, trains etc. are outside the vehicle. Not all at once, but sort of random.  Sometimes an event I added is missing.

I must be using the interface incorrectly, but don't know exactly how, because it happens regularly.  I must have put the engineers in their train 2 dozen times. Sometimes I just let them ride outside for awhile. They are allways attached and move correctly. Once they move, it doesn't appear that they move the second time,

[Goetz]

vor 29 Minuten schrieb hmclay:

Not all at once, but sort of random. 

No way!
A computer doesn't do anything random, unless you tell it to.

I suggest, you record your sessions and watch afterwards, what you did when and how it affected your layout.
We can't tell you what you're doing "incorrectly" (inadvertently, more like), because we're not watching.

[simonjackson1964]

7 hours ago, Goetz said:

Not after a certain number of clicks, Simon.
But after certain actions.
When a vehicle leaves a depot, the undo buffer gets cleared. 

Even a limited number of undo steps still allows for the last actions to be taken back.
Every new action pushes the oldest one off the stack. Not more.

Actually it greys out after 50 clicks! I just tested it. Easy to do, just create a forest using the new multiple place feature, put 60 trees in. Then try and undo them all. You will be left with 10 you have to delete!

27 minutes ago, hmclay said:

2.) Without stopping (normally) , I click on an item I may want to move/edit. I accidentally click the wrong item, and move it .... then can't just hit undo ... even once.

This could be due to what Goetz said: if you have the layout running then if a vehicle enters or exits a depot, it will clear the undo buffer. I just checked and it does it on both.

I recommend pausing the layout in order to make changes.

The drivers of vehicles moving... Could be something to do with them not being linked properly to the vehicle? Or just a thought it could be that they are somehow on a different scale.

[simonjackson1964]

Oh, also, you can't undo an action while you have the end widget of a spline object selected... just click on the baseboard and the undo option comes back.

[hmclay]

Thanks for the reply's  .... whatever I'm doing wrong, I'm still doing wrong.

Using V8 now, and the engineers moved outside the cab, and the passengers moved outside the cablecar when I saved the layout, and opened the next morning. (Not the first V8 save)

"somehow on a different scale"  ... don't understand exactly what that means or how to know, or what to do about it.

I have other people attached to other vehicles that do not exhibit this problem, so maybe it is a scale issue.

As for undo ... don't know what I'm doing wrong, but it sure is inconvenient. I almost have to save the file after each successful edit. That way, when I do something naughty and can't undo, I can reopen the file and continue.

When I said random, I meant that the movement doesn't happen on every reopening of the file. (Computer read problem?)

I also made a mistake not learning to use layers. I have tracks over tracks winding up a mountain. Oh my, what an editing nightmare that causes for "select'. Major job now switching to layers ... but I should ! Didn't learn portals soon enough either, but I'm learning.

[Herman]

On 10/28/2022 at 5:29 PM, Herman said:

Yes Götz, it is the hole indeed.

Hello @hmclay , because I opened this topic : I did not have a shift of objects when changing from version, but I thougt so because my tunnels seemed to be displaced. Not,  Götz gave me the correct answer. From V6 -> V7 or V8 the holes we use to go in the tunnel did it.  Nothing else.

However I do have the situation ( occasionally , but not often ) that train drivers, passengers in a bus, goods on a waggon, shift from position in my layouts.  And they look random, let's say the driver trough the roof, a passenger through the window, all others correct on their place. I first tought it came after a save / load. But it was after long testing ( and not looking at the passengers ) that before the save I saw the displacement too. This in my layouts, and only if the vehicles are running a long long time over a curved parcours. I did some testing in the past. A fresh layout, a bus with passengers, curved parcours, let them run for hours. Saved, load etc. Not a single displacement. For the moment I think I provoked it myself somewhere in my layouts, but could never find why. So for the moment I cannot help with your problem. I do not doubt a moment what you are seeing.

Kind regards, Herman (BE) ( started aug 2020 in V5)

Bearbeitet 23. November 2022 von Herman

[simonjackson1964]

Come to think of it I've had the exact same issue...  Consists of empty wagons each having a rectangle primitive added, to represent the load. This rectangle is attached to a "Dummy Lok" item which sits on a short vertical length of virtual track that is attached to the wagon. In this way the load can be realistically filled.

I have lost count of the number of times I have gone through all the consists and set the x and y coordinates of the load equal to those of the wagon, and yet somehow they seem to move randomly, by a tiny amount. This is a V7 layout that I gave up on because it refuses to work consistently. Like Herman I have tried to run the same wagons on a test track with lots of curves, and found no displacement.

36F2775A-5262-4DAE-AB3A-2DE1C34C6425

Draft upload

[Goetz]

Thanks for your example, Simon :-)

Looks great, when a truck unloads into a rail wagon.

[Little]

Hello Simon,
I like the loading very much,
What actually earn the workers at the loading line entrance?

[simonjackson1964]

10 minutes ago, Goetz said:

Thanks for your example, Simon :-)

Looks great, when a truck unloads into a rail wagon.

I know, I'm really pleased with that bit, and the digger filling the trucks. The problem, aside from the cosmetic issue above, and the fact that sometimes a mainline train will divert into the yard, and the fact that the routes don't always clear themselves, and the buttons not disabling properly... is that when the train is full and being moved to the departure tracks, the four trucks get filled and then sit in a queue waiting for the next train.

When it is ready to fill, the first two trucks move off together, and go to different transfer points, then the next two trucks do the same, but sometimes they get it wrong and go to the same transfer point. ...

So yes, too much not working the way I expected and I gave up because fixing one thing caused another to go wrong

42 minutes ago, Little said:

Hello Simon,
I like the loading very much,
What actually earn the workers at the loading line entrance?

Depends where you look but a quick google search has a Banksman earning between £26,000 and £43,000 per annum.  I imagine that would depend on whether road or rail and experience etc... however, my three guys are just standing there and occasionally send the trucks the wrong way, so I'm not paying them!

[Dad3353]

7 minutes ago, simonjackson1964 said:

...my three guys are just standing there and occasionally send the trucks the wrong way, so I'm not paying them!

Maybe, if you paid them, the trucks would go the right way..? 

Vielleicht würden die Lastwagen in die richtige Richtung fahren, wenn Sie sie bezahlten..? 

...

 

[simonjackson1964]

Actually I may have fixed that by fiddling with the trucks' auto-acceleration! I'll re-instate their salaries with back-pay!

[simonjackson1964]

Or maybe not.... It works fine for aged and the when not being watched it all goes wrong! No idea why, nothing different is happening that time to all the other times, and because it only happens when not being watched I can't find the cause.

[Dad3353]

2 hours ago, simonjackson1964 said:

Or maybe not.... It works fine for aged and the when not being watched it all goes wrong! No idea why, nothing different is happening that time to all the other times, and because it only happens when not being watched I can't find the cause.

Then stop not watching it. 

Dann hör auf, es nicht zu sehen. 

...

 

[simonjackson1964]

If I do that something goes wrong elsewhere on the layout!

[Dad3353]