V9 issue with fps

[220hotwheels]

@Neo

Good morning

Another possible issue with V9. I have a layout created in V8.5 which runs perfectly with min fps around 40 and max 170fps. This layout included the model Nikolaus II when it was in draft form and for total file size had reached 5400mb. Since the draft time had expired I was left with loads of question marks, which I understand, but still the program ran well with everything else. Since importing this into V9 the frame rate for this program has dropped to 1fps max 5fps.

There has been no change to the graphics settings so I am once again left rather puzzled. Any thoughts please and taking the worst possible scenario is it possible to be able to add Nikolaus II and all it's siblings to V8.5 so that I could continue to use the complete layout in that version. I also noted that the file size has increased from 5400mb to 5960mb simply be having Nikolaus II etc replacing the question marks.

Kind regards

Peter

[220hotwheels]

On 8/29/2024 at 7:06 AM, alexander42 said:

Still, these are very low fps figures. If you want to investigate this further: Try determening, whether this is an MBS problem or a computer problem first.

Run this graphics benchmark on standard settings: https://benchmark.unigine.com/heaven  Make sure to reset all Nvidia settings to factory values first. You may want to run this multiple times. This will give you a performance value to compare against other systems.

Please post the CID of an MBS layout with low fps here. I will check this layout on my computer.

Alex

 

Hi Alex

I have a PC with a gaming monitor (refresh rate 170htz. The computer has 32gb ram Nvidia GeForce RTX 4070. I have a layout that has been running in V8.5.5 with no problems. The file size is just a tad short of 5400MB but I still get between 40fps and 160fps with ease. Since adding V9 and importing this same layout the frame rate has dropped to 2fps max 9fps, I've compared all of the graphic setting for both the V8.5 and V9 versions of this layout and there appears to be no difference. I am beginning to wonder if V9 cannot support a file size of 5400MB. That said the file size in V9 for this layout has jumped to 5960MB.

As you might imagine I am not a very happy bunny at this point and wonder if you you have any printable suggestions that might help to resolve this as it appears you are much more in the know, so to speak,than myself.

Cheers

Pete

[alexander42]

Hi Pete,

Since V9 is still in beta, I suggest reporting this issue to @Neo.

All I can offer you is running your layout on my system to determine whether this is a fluke or a systemic problem. If you could post your layout's CID here I will give it a try.

Cheers
Alex

[Herman]

Hello @220hotwheels , Pete. When I installed the free V9 beta version to test I tought to see the same, when I compared some of my layouts.  FPS in V85 versus V9. But here V9 is newly installed and I had to register it also properly to my NVidea graphic cards. 
After that, there was still a loss of FPS in the same layouts, but very minimal. 

Pete, sorry, I read now your other post, saying that all is OK with your graphics. Then it is up to Neo to investigate. 

Kind regards, Herman

Bearbeitet 2. November von Herman

[220hotwheels]

1 hour ago, alexander42 said:

Hi Pete,

Since V9 is still in beta, I suggest reporting this issue to Neo.

All I can offer you is running your layout on my system to determine whether this is a fluke or a systemic problem. If you could post your layout's CID here I will give it a try.

Cheers
Alex

Silly question, I'm really good at those, but where do I find the CID number or do I need to create one first?

Pete 

[Goetz]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb 220hotwheels:

where do I find the CID number

On the start page, right-click the small preview picture of your layout and chose: Properties.
You find the number at the bottom of that screen.

[Herman]

Hello @220hotwheels , you have to publish it first, a draft is good enough. Then under properties the content Id Number. As example the Nikolaus just published today

Crossed the message from Götz. 

Pete, I'm also eager to see what FPS that layout gives here.

Regards, Herman

Bearbeitet 2. November von Herman
typo

[220hotwheels]

4 minutes ago, Goetz said:

On the start page, right-click the small preview picture of your layout and chose: Properties.
You find the number at the bottom of that screen.

Thanks Goetz.

[220hotwheels]

6 minutes ago, Herman said:

Hello 220hotwheels , you have to publish it first, a draft is good enough. Then under properties the content Id Number. As example the Nikolaus just published today

Crossed the message from Götz. 

Pete, I'm also eager to see what FPS that layout gives here.

Regards, Herman

Hi Herman

Here's the CID reference number 07721643-AFD8-4312-B3FE-B7180B517BD1

Any thoughts you have to improve matter would be appreciated.

Pete

[Herman]

Hello, not found on that ID. Did you publish it first ?
Herman

[220hotwheels]

2 hours ago, alexander42 said:

Hi Pete,

Since V9 is still in beta, I suggest reporting this issue to Neo.

All I can offer you is running your layout on my system to determine whether this is a fluke or a systemic problem. If you could post your layout's CID here I will give it a try.

Cheers
Alex

Hi Alex

Here's the CID reference number 07721643-AFD8-4312-B3FE-B7180B517BD1

Any thoughts you have to improve matter would be appreciated.

Pete

[220hotwheels]

2 minutes ago, Herman said:

Hello, not found on that ID. Did you publish it first ?
Herman

No do I need to do so first?

[Herman]

Hello Pete, 
With the Content ID number you refer to your layout at your home. We cannot see it there. So yes, you have to publish it, and a draft will do. It will be published with the same ID as that at your home.

Herman

example right click on your layout, and publish to the internet, choose for draft and go on.

The draft is automatically removed from the internet catalogue after a month.

Important P.M. You may of course publish it in 8.5 , in V9 you can only publish if already bought.

 

Bearbeitet 2. November von Herman

[220hotwheels]

16 minutes ago, Herman said:

Hello, not found on that ID. Did you publish it first ?
Herman

It's now published as a draft

[220hotwheels]

2 hours ago, alexander42 said:

Hi Pete,

Since V9 is still in beta, I suggest reporting this issue to Neo.

All I can offer you is running your layout on my system to determine whether this is a fluke or a systemic problem. If you could post your layout's CID here I will give it a try.

Cheers
Alex

Hi Alex

I've now published the draft under reference 07721643-AFD8-4312-B3FE-B7180B517BD1

[Goetz]

vor 12 Minuten schrieb 220hotwheels:

do I need to do so first?

But of course!
An unpublished layout is stored on your personal computer.

The 3D-Train Studio does not allow other users to access your personal computer. That would be irresponsible!

That's why Neo offers an Online-Catalogue for models and layouts.
That's a storage area on his server, accessible for anybody.

When you publish your layout, a copy is stored on Neo's server.

[220hotwheels]

2 minutes ago, Goetz said:

But of course!
An unpublished layout is stored on your personal computer.

The 3D-Train Studio does not allow other users to access your personal computer. That would be irresponsible!

That's why Neo offers an Online-Catalogue for models and layouts.
That's a storage area on his server, accessible for anybody.

When you publish your layout, a copy is stored on Neo's server.

Thanks for the clarification, common sense really if I had thought about it. Just goes to show how your mind can go to mush when you start to get uptight about an issue.

Pete

[Herman]

Hello @220hotwheels , Pete.
Indeed, on my laptop 19 FPS in rest, 3 - 5 FPS when running. That is much to low. - I believe you - if it is running in V8.5 at a reasonable FPS, then we have to wait until  @Neo has an idea.

Sorry, here I cannot help.
Kind regards, Herman

I think even you have a better graphics card. Here my graphics.

Bearbeitet 2. November von Herman

[220hotwheels]

58 minutes ago, Herman said:

Hello 220hotwheels , Pete.
Indeed, on my laptop 19 FPS in rest, 3 - 5 FPS when running. That is much to low. - I believe you - if it is running in V8.5 at a reasonable FPS, then we have to wait until  Neo has an idea.

Sorry, here I cannot help.
Kind regards, Herman

I think even you have a better graphics card. Here my graphics.

Thanks for the reassurance Herman, it's nice to know that I'm not going mad. At rest I have upto 170fps but as soon as you start to run it goes into snail pace.

Cheers

Pete

[alexander42]

Hi Pete,

I have looked at your layout. First, let me say that this is really impressive! Though it doesn't really fit mit personal taste, I can very much appreciate the effort and care that must have gone into building it, especially all the details and complex traffic patterns.

The paused layout is running between 20 and 40 fps on my machine with shadows and special effects turned off. Keep in mind, that I have a quite old CPU (Ryzen 2700X) and only 16GB of RAM. But I think this is fine, since the overall system utlilization is at 30-40 percent max.

Unpausing the layout is where things started going south. I never saw more than 5 FPS. You have built an incredibliy complex event structure with dozens, if not hundreds of events, timers, delays and more, happening every second. Even then, my system utilization did not go up significantly. I can't tell for sure, but I beleive that the MBS engine is not designed to handle that amount of events.

Did this layout really run smoothly on your machine with MBS 8.5?

Cheers
Alex

Bearbeitet 2. November von alexander42

[220hotwheels]

1 hour ago, alexander42 said:

Hi Pete,

I have looked at your layout. First, let me say that this is really impressive! Though it doesn't really fit mit personal taste, I can very much appreciate the effort and care that must have gone into building it, especially all the details and complex traffic patterns.

The paused layout is running between 20 and 40 fps on my machine with shadows and special effects turned off. Keep in mind, that I have a quite old CPU (Ryzen 2700X) and only 16GB of RAM. But I think this is fine, since the overall system utlilization is at 30-40 percent max.

Unpausing the layout is where things started going south. I never saw more than 5 FPS. You have built an incredibliy complex event structure with dozens, if not hundreds of events, timers, delays and more, happening every second. Even then, my system utilization did not go up significantly. I can't tell for sure, but I beleive that the MBS engine is not designed to handle that amount of events.

Did this layout really run smoothly on your machine with MBS 8.5?

Cheers
Alex

Hi Alex

Thanks for taking the trouble to take a look at the problem and yes it ran perfectly in V8.5. At that time Nikolaus II was just in draft form but never the less it all ran perfectly. When the action was paused my fps was between 110 and 165fps but once in operation mode this dropped to 40 to 80fps. Everything ran smoothly, no funny judders.

I have several other large layouts still as work in progress and these all run very smoothly in V8.5. Hmmm there seems to be a common theme here!!!

Cheers 

Pete

[alexander42]

Hi Pete,

in this case, I would definitely report this issue to Neo, if you didn't already.

Cheers
Alex

[Neo]

Hi Peter,

please post a screenshot of your V8.5 and V9 graphics settings.

Kind regards,

Neo

[220hotwheels]

14 minutes ago, Neo said:

Hi Peter,

please post a screenshot of your V8.5 and V9 graphics settings.

Kind regards,

Neo

Hi Neo

As requested I have attached screenshots of both graphic card settings. I have tried adjusting the settings in both from both "normal" and "Low" to both "Normal and Normal" to both "High and normal" but it made no difference at all. At the moment I am assuming that V9 will not cope well with the large file size 5600Mb in V8.5 to 5960MB in V9. The Nikolaus II demo layout that I am working on for Klaus, (Sualokink), is only 1000MB so has no fps issues.

Kind regards

Peter

[Roter Brummer]

Hello Peter,

your shadows are set higher in V9.

HG
Brummi