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220hotwheels
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1 hour ago, Phrontistes said:
Hi Pete,
I think not only a little while. It took me a few weeks to get to where I am now.
About your EM:
So it won't work out for logical reasons. I'll describe what you're doing here, namely a pointless roundabout:
- You evaluate the event, a specific route has been activated/deactivated – but without querying whether it has just been activated or deactivated.
- Regardless of whether it is activated or deactivated, you activate exactly this route under certain conditions, so you either activate it for the second time (don't do it because of the stack!) or you just deactivate it again.
It may be that you have to evaluate the event Route has been activated/deactivated, but firstly you have to evaluate the condition "Route is active" (or not) and secondly you do something afterwards that should follow and do not manipulate the triggering route.
Evaluate when a train enters a track contact and then decide which route should be activated (once!).
I hope this will get you a little further.
Best regards
Phrontistes
Hi Phrontistes
Well at least now I know why it didn't work. That you took a few weeks to achieve your results and knowledge is quite impressive. Without a clear manual to suggest different steps it all becomes a bit of a guessing game, but in a way that is party of the appeal although my real interest is in designing the layout, getting things to work properly is the icing on the cake. Thus far I have designed 4 layouts and am now on my 5th. In each many elements work, to a point, but the overall effect of the layout is, I think quite good. In each I try to introduce something different from knowledge that I have gained but in doing so I tend to put to the back of my mind improvements to my EV knowledge. However as I gain more experience I do keep returning to the original layouts and making adjustments. My only pit fall is the size that each layout becomes. The smallest is just shy of 3000kb and the largest is over 5300kb. My computer copes well with all of these but It does restrict what I can share unless a member is happy for me to send a layout via email as an *.mbp. One other element that also restricts sharing is that on some of the layouts I have some bespoke trucks and trailers, courtesy of another member but they are too large to be considered for the catalogue. My ultimate aim is to produce video's of each so that they can be posted on YouTube, but that's for another day.
Anyway I digress. When I look at some of the EV that you and other members produce I cannot but wonder just how you found the elements to choose in order to achieve your results. As you have already seen from my attempt to solve the routes issue, I simply started to look through the various sections of EV to try to find something that resembled a possible result. Clearly the obvious to me was not the answer. Now however, with your advice I might just get it sorted.
Once again many thanks
Kind regards
Pete
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8 hours ago, Phrontistes said:
Hi Pete,
Setting is ok, but means to construct a route for further use.
No, a route can serve any train coming to the startpoint.
To activate a (beforehand constructed) Route use the EM (perferred) like this:
In this example, I ensure that trains enter a double-track station primarily on track 1, otherwise on track 2, but prevent two trains from occupying the two tracks in the same direction because that led to a deadlock if a countertrain comes. But that's just an example of how routes can be activated under certain conditions with the help of the EM.
Or - second possibility - you click here to activate a route (once because of the stack):
Do so by EM. Here one more example:
Look here, what happens when the Timer expires, the blocked-variable gets false (because the countertrain has retracted) and the direction-variable is set to depot:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flw_ZIcrabk
Here you can see, that there is a stack. Route 6-1 and routes 1 C-->E / 2 E-->C are crossing (see video). They are therefore only released one after the other by the program. And it is possible that the next train again reserves Route 6-1 (Stack!), which will be released as recently as the Train from the Depot is back on the countertrack.
Here the same situation as mbp:
Routes Example.mbp 479.73 kB · 0 downloads
Open the routes-window (F5) and watch the trains move.
Variable names and comments are largely (but not entirely) in English.
I hope I was able to promote your understanding of routes.
Routes are great and reliably prevent trains from colliding. No signals or switches have to be set manually or via EM.
Kind regards
Phrontistes
Hi Phrontistes
Well you make it all seem so simple and very much more reliable and professional than my feeble attempt using lots of signals, timing and switches. It is, however going to take me a little while to work through all of the information that you have sent to me and to watch the video so I didn't want you to think that I was ignoring your most generous advice. Since our last conversation I did try to come up with a solution myself, attached screenshot, but alas it didn't work so hopefully with your guidance and advice I'll get this issue sorted finally and in doing so add considerably to my knowledge base. Many thanks once again.
Cheers
Pete
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21 minutes ago, Phrontistes said:
I can imagine where the problem lies. With routes, you have to be very careful to only activate them once and not (accidentally) multiple times. If you have set the defer request option (see picture), the program puts all requests on a stack and processes then stack. This has (supposedly) strange consequences.
The routes work absolutely flawlessly if you use them correctly.
Kind regards
Phrontistes
I'm confused, and clearly not using "routes" correctly. I assumed that setting a route simply meant clicking on the routes icon at the bottom of the screen, select the train and then simply list the route by means of moving from one signal or TC, (waypoints) to another until that part of the route in question was complete. I have set the route for each train in 2 parts. One leaves the terminal and ends just before the first VD. The second starts after the train has left the last VD and runs through to the freight terminal. Each train begins once it's relevant signal has been switched. I was unaware that it was to activate said route in the EV as well. I can now see the relevant section for activate or deactivate a route but no where have I come across the defer picture that you have sent.
Once again I have attached two more screenshot of one of the routes and would welcome your further advice as to the proper method of activating both.
Cheers
Pete
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23 minutes ago, Phrontistes said:
Hello everyone,
Pete may have a logic problem that cannot be pinpointed with event tracking, which reveals syntactical errors.
Incidentally, you would recognize an error in the event tracking immediately, because it then stops and shows you the error in red. If you click on the red line, you are in the event where the error is.
Kind regards
Phrontistes
Thanks for that. At least I can now utilise F12 fully. That said on the rare occasions that I have used it, nothing came up red.
Pete
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59 minutes ago, Phrontistes said:
Hi Pete
Why do you have to switch switches when you use routes? I think it would be easier you set routes depending on the train. It can end in chaos if you activate routes and switch switches at the same time.
Best regards
Phrontistes
Simply because I have found that after setting a route, with trains in particular, that junctions are more often than not ignored. I've taken another screenshot, this time of the junction in question and showing the route for a particular train, the last one to negotiate this junction. When it arrived at said junction it simply followed the path of the previous train.
Pete
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23 minutes ago, Herman said:
Hello, 220hotwheels , it is difficult for us to see what the problem is now, we lack extra info. Did you use the event trace F12 to locate the error.
Best regards, HermanHi Herman
No I have not. I have run event trace before but frankly was not able to understand where and when a problem was listed. I think the term most commonly used in my case when it comes to the more technical side of this wonderful pastime is "not the brightest cookie in the jar". I simply keep going through the EV that I have created until I find the error.
Not great but it does eventually work.
Pete
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I spoke too soon. After running the layout for over 30 mins the problem is still there but no where in that part of the EV does it list any vehicle as "empty" in other words in a VD. The fact that one is in a VD still affects the TC instruction, back to the drawing board for a few m ore experiments.
Cheers
Pete
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Hi Guys
Well once more many thanks to Herman, Phrontistes and Prinz. With your collective help my problem would seem to now be solved, although it is early days yet. I've attached a screenshot of the latest EV which encapsulates each piece of advice you have supplied plus for good measure something that I thought about earlier, i.e. the Active route element.
I'll now introduce this into another section of my EV that had similar problems but that I got round it with 6 different TC, one for each train. Oh the joys of collective minds, especially those with much greater knowledge than mine!!
Cheers
Pete
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Thanks for all of the advice guy's and thanks Prinz for the example for a more specific and simpler instruction in my EV.
Lots to experiment with now and fingers crossed I find the right solution to this interesting little problem.
Once the solution has been achieved I'll let everyone know.
Cheers
Pete
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50 minutes ago, Herman said:
Hello 220hotwheels ,sorry I did not know that.
Click on the picture of the mbp in the forum, and en let it go to your download map ( in windows ).
When you have it there. Start V8 , go to online catalog. You can open it in your V8. You do have V8 ?
Kind regards, Herman
Thanks for that Herman. As you have probably picked up from reply to Phontistes I am using V8, and have been able to open your file following your advice. Why it will not open directly from the Windows file manager as was the case before I have no idea. Anyway, I will start to work through your example later today and let you know how it all works out.
Once again many thanks for all your advice.
Cheers
Pete
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40 minutes ago, Phrontistes said:
Hi Pete,
Are you using version 8? Then it should always work because the 3D Train Studio is backwards compatible.
I think it's more convenient than Herman's suggestion not to start 3D Train Studio and simply double-click on the downloaded file, then the program opens immediately with the file.
Send a screenshot, maybe we can help you. Opening an mbp file is actually not a problem.
Kind regards
Phrontistes
Yep I am using V8 and yes I always used to find opening an *.mbp file in the way you suggested was OK and simple but since a recent Windows upgrade that does not seem to work. Taking a screen shot is also different. Before this upgrade simply pressing the screenshot key would take a screenshot. Not so now the process is somewhat more convoluted but nevertheless it's not too bad. Anyway having followed Herman's suggestion I was able to open the file and will now start to work through his suggestion.
Cheers
Pete
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16 minutes ago, Herman said:
Hello 220hotwheels , I made this one. To set a switch.mbp
I tried to keep it very basic. But of course, sorry with variables and triggers. See if you can use it, or not. Only to help.
Kind regards, Herman
Addendum/ Feel free to ask questions about this, if you want.
Hi Herman
Many thanks for your suggestion. As I have said to so many members over time I don't know if I'm just stupid but having downloaded your switch.mbp I don't seem to be able to open it. All I get is a blank screen.
I do however take both your point and that of Phontistes that variables are the answer so I will simply delve in to that world and see how far I get.
Thanks to you both
Pete
p.s. I'll keep trying to sort out the download issue.
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17 minutes ago, Phrontistes said:
Here you have a problem:
This is not allowed. You may not target a vehicle object when the vehicle could be in a depot.
Kind regards
Phrontistes
Yes I understand that is where the problem lies I just don't know how best to solve the issue other than to allocate a separate TC for each of the trains, although I can reduce the number of TC from 6, in this instance, to probably 3 by carefully allocating batches of 2 trains to each of the 3 EV's. Even so that seems to be a bit of an amateurish solution and as there will ultimately be a total of 10 trains at least requiring to negotiate these switches I think I need to find an alternative solution.
Kind regards
Pete
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11 hours ago, Phrontistes said:
Hi Pete,
That's the problem. You cannot deal with as vehicle in a virtuel depot. The vehicle-object does not longer exist once the vehicle entered the depot.
Yes. In the following example I declare a modul-variable of type object named "TrainToFollow"
and I store the vehicle-object of the vehicle leaving the depot west in this modul-variable for further use.
You will have to deal with this in order to progress.
Kind regards
Phrontistes
Hi Phrontistes
Thank you so much for taking the trouble to reply to my enquiry. My EV knowledge is still somewhat limited but I will take more time to consider and evaluate your kind suggestion in order to see if it will help.
Once again many thanks
Pete
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13 hours ago, Goetz said:
Can't help without you showing what you did.
I need to know your method before I can offer an alternative.A train in the depot doesn't exist in your little world until it reappears.
That's the root of your predicament.Greets
GoetzGood morning Goetz
How remiss of me not to include a screenshot of the EV in question but to simply assume that everyone would know what I was trying to say. Those little grey cells need more than just a gentle nudge!!
Therefore, please find attached a screenshot of said EV. Everything works perfectly fine just so long as no train listed in this EV is in a Virtual depot but the moment one is then the instructions to all others goes out the window.
I'm sure there will be a solution, other than to give each train it's own TC but I regret my knowledge just doesn't stretch that far yet.
I've taken a brief look at the solution offered by Phrontistes but as yet have not been able to workout if it will solve my issue.
Kind regards
Pete
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Hi
I have recently started to take virtual depot's more seriously in an effort to try to trim down the size of my current layout. It is working but not as much as I had hoped, perhaps my need for a truly realistic layout is the route cause.
Anyway I digress. An issue that I have come across relates to a problem with switches and other instructions within my EV which encapsulate, let us say for argument, 5 trains all on the same overall track/portals/virtual depot's. The problem comes when one of the trains is in a virtual depot and one or more of the others are negotiating a switch, this particular switch being common to all of the trains but there are others that are not common to all, perhaps only one or two. The instruction in the EV is simply ignored. I have got round this temporarily by placing a separate TC for each train, but I feel this to be very messy, I'm sure someone would be able to point me in the right direction in order to a) reduce the number of TC's and b) cover the whole instruction in one "simple" line of EV. No doubt the introduction of variables might provide the answer but my thus far feeble attempt has not proved to be of any use.
All suggestions gratefully received.
Pete
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Hi Neo
That would be very much appreciated. It would certainly add greater definition to some elements of scenery production.
Many thanks for considering.
Peter
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Hi
I'm not too sure if this would be possible but I'm sure many other members might find this particular request helpful, especially, if like me, you create lots of realistic scenery.
The square paint tool. Is it possible for this to be made so that it can be rotated? I find this particular tool most useful in providing more concise lines but alas it only really works well if the orientation is perfectly square, something that is most definitely not possible with all elements of scenery construction. If it could be rotated then that would enable much more precise scenery construction.
Kind regards
Peter
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Hi Goetz
Many thanks for your reply and advice. Transfer was a poor choice of word, apologies, I was aware that you could only exit from one depot to another.
Since I posted my enquiry I went back to basics on that particular element of track, previously I had simply copied and pasted the track from another that worked OK but by deleting that copied track and replacing it with a completely new one all began to work well. Yet another lesson learnt!!!
Whilst I have only previously dabbled with Virtual Depots I am now making a concentrated effort to maximise on their potential in the hope that I might then be able to create a sophisticated layout that does not exceed 3000kb, all my other ones are over 5000kb.
So the little grey cells are once more replenished, so onwards and upwards.
Pete
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Hi
I would very much appreciate someone kindly advising me what the following means "no free space in front of depot". This message appears when I try to transfer a train from one depot to another. The EV should be right as it all worked fine until I decided to simplify the V.D. track layout to which I was sending trains. Clearly I have made a mistake somewhere but the error phrase does not make it clear as wher4e the error is. There is nothing on the track preceding the V.D. to which the train is being sent to.
Puzzled Pete
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5 minutes ago, Goetz said:
In the undying words of Blackadder in A Christmas Carol:
"It's not the size that matters, Baldrick. It's where you stick it!"
Now that's a gem of a reply! thanks Goetz. You're the second person this evening to make my day.
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21 minutes ago, Hawkeye said:
Hi Pete,
sounds as if your EV is disabled. Open the Event trace an klick here.
If you see a message like this red one you got to check your Events for mistakes.
Hawkeye
Well, Hawkeye by name and hawk eye by nature. You were absolutely spot on. My sincere thanks for your advice. I had made one small error in the Lua script in the most current element of my EV. Phew, what a relief. Yet another addition to my knowledge base as well as a note to be even more careful in future.
Many thanks once again.
Pete
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9 minutes ago, Hawkeye said:
Hi Pete,
sounds as if your EV is disabled. Open the Event trace an klick here.
If you see a message like this red one you got to check your Events for mistakes.
Hawkeye
Many thanks for that Hawkeye. I'll take a look now and come back with the result.
Pete
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14 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:
Pete...
If you've been following 'best practice', you've a previous version of this layout, before the most recent modifications. If so, can you load it, and how does it play..?
Wenn Sie sich an die "bewährte Praxis" gehalten haben, haben Sie eine frühere Version dieses Layouts, vor den jüngsten Änderungen. Wenn ja, können Sie sie laden, und wie spielt sie?
Douglas
Hi Douglas
Whether right or wrong my system of back up follows this principle. Press the save icon at the top of the screen, then save the file as an *.mbp, this I do several times during a session and finally once each week make a complete backup. I've restored the backup file and it's fine so I've only lost around 20 hours work which I can work through once more but what concerns me is why has this happened.
To be on the safe side I am saving, saving to a new *.mbp and backing up to a new file so as not to alter the original *.mbp just in case some bright fellow can tell me which button to press to get everything back to normal on the original layout. If this proves to be a none starter then I will delete this faulty layout once I have all the bits from it re-entered onto the new copy.
Pete
Virtual Depots
in [International] Problems and solutions
Geschrieben
Hi Phrontistes
Thanks for that I'll take a look. In the meantime I have attached a few screenshots of one of my layouts that I hope you might find interesting. Whilst most of it works it certainly needs a lot of streamlining which may well bring it down in size but until I have gained enough expertise it will have to wait.
Cheers
Pete